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Thread / Thread Starter
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Developer Post
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Forum
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A little idea... Purrrrgot.
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3 Days Ago 10:02 PM
Riot Pwyff
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General Discussion
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Mods Are Asleep...
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3 Days Ago 09:59 PM
Damiya
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General Discussion
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Damiya
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Technical Analyst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler
*Jaws theme*
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Little did y'all know, the jaws theme plays whenever Meddler enters a room
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Riot - Please Respond regarding AUSTRALIAN / OCEANIC Server
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3 Days Ago 09:55 PM
Damiya
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General Discussion
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Damiya
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Technical Analyst
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Mods Are Asleep...
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3 Days Ago 08:00 PM
Meddler
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General Discussion
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Meddler
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Champion Designer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahgro
Just testing the waters.
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*Jaws theme*
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How do you guys feel about the Rune Combiner?
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3 Days Ago 07:34 PM
Damiya
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General Discussion
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:56 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujitsu788
I would back a new Lunari champ with every ounce of my body. There's just so much you can do with the Solari vs Lunari theme. And there's also the implied connection between the Lunari and Nami. Now I've gone and fangirled myself.. :/
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Yeah, Team Diana and others think there's some opportunity in Targon. We've set it up for tension and even possible resolution. I like to stray away from complete resolution though, I like it when drama and conflict continue to cycle.
I'm not sure I'd make another lunar champion. The situation is ripe for someone to appear in between the two of them, but exploring that is probably a long way off. My brain leans towards an individual/power who causes Leona and Diana to either unite or reconcile, or possibly to facilitate the destruction of both.
There obviously was some sort of society which existed that encompassed both the sun and the moon, there's a lot of opportunities to see what either remains of that once possibly united tribe, or what might seek to eliminate them both.
Who knows?
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How do you guys feel about the Rune Combiner?
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3 Days Ago 06:53 PM
Damiya
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General Discussion
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:46 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moobu
@Iron Stylus Completely out of the blue but... can you elaborate on the Nunu Bot design? I mean I still feel as a whole you guys missed the mark by a mile. He doesn't even say any of the famous quotes like "PUSHPUSHPUSH." What gives? And why doesn't it get fixed? How do you give homage to something by not acknowledging it in the first place?
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No idea.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:46 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anasthera
There's a lot of ripe territory for regional lore events. We've barely even touched Noxus/Demacia, even though both are more well developed in terms of game lore than most other places, and there are quite a few champions that need remaking hardcore that can be repropriated for new lore stuffs.
I'm personally eager for more development on Ionia. They been gettin their ass whooped by the other powers a whole lot, sounds like it time for them to rise up  .
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My personal opinion is that you could probably do something fun in a dual Noxus/Demacia thing. Showcase that tension.
As for Ionia, yeah, I think that's ripe territory where we could explore post-occupation reconstruction and resurgence.
All sorts of fun conflicts!
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Diana skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:44 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpopper
Poor parrot. Everyone seems to be trying to summon you tonight lol.
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Well, they've got about 15 minutes. After that I'm off to dinner with the wife, RiotTeaTime, RiotSilver, Ohmikegoodness, and his lady to go see Star Trek.
Get it while the gettin's good!
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:41 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prkl8r
Also, I want a mount teragon event similar to the feljord event.
I need a "Protect the Faith" summoner icon!
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I think a Mount Targon event would be super fun. I can think of some neat ideas. We need the content, story, and reason to support it however. It has to accomodate those that find value in story, but also widely appeal to those who are more surface oriented and don't delve too deep into the IP. It has to be significant to both, I think it can be, but time will tell.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:39 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomGuy928
Simultaneously release a pair of legendary-tier, lore-based character evolution skins for Leona and Diana.
You know you want to.
In all seriousness, would something like this even be possible given the pipeline?
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Honestly, I'd love to do this. I'd love to make a pillar of the story line and express it with a content bundle like this. Not sure when this would be realistic, but anything is possible if we feel it's a worthy enough endeavor.
Again, it all comes back to the need for such skins to be on the surface extremely compelling. The story aspect would be pivotal, but the real meat is in how appealing things are to the majority of the players who don't engage in the story side of things.
I'm pretty sure it can be done, it's a matter of when the best time to do it is and how we decide to allocate the resources necessary.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Diana skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:36 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:35 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeIIow 13
So Stylus, is this how you determined Ice Shyvanas viability?(Not you, but like, you, you know?). The freljord theme was begging for it since it was an idea thrown around the forums, but was it mainly "Ice Dragons exist in Western/Eastern mythology, and they are a concept known to the masses"?
If that's so, what other skins thrown around have potential? La Llorona looks good enough on its own to stand alone, but it came out of the left field so to speak, and ghostly brides aren't really farfetched in alot of tales.
My question is, knowing this, for the potential of the skin, where would an idea such as, to use for example, Dragon Swain stand? If you guys will release it in the future or it's in early iteration, what determined the length of the idea of it and the actual conceptual stage of it? Dragons in general so to say, I believe Shyvana is the first 'true' dragon in League.
You explained the GG Ahri as 'Well, only a small base would understand it' and that's actually quite true. Surprise Fiddlesticks was mostly a Forum conceptualized idea, Naut/Ziggs proved popular enough and in quite a niche(Pool Party Ziggs leading to Sunbathing Leona, per se, while Space Naut is a universal skin, theme wise). Where would the dragon ideas go?
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Morello has spoken to the Dragon Master Swain thing. We all agree it's a very strong theme that has good potential to maximize the experience that Swain has. He's a mage who transforms into an animal. That's super ripe territory.
Dragons in general are great from Western motifs like Shyvanna to Eastern ones which we should riff off of. Big firy monsters are a pretty badass trope cross-culturally.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:32 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prkl8r
I understand where your coming from. Though, TBH part of me wishes we had THAT skin instead of Iron Solari.
Also, I can't help but be a little disappointed that after suck a long dry run on leona skins, her new skin will be a "silly" skin.
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She has plenty of opportunities for good skins that are more serious in nature. I mean, it's actually pretty difficult to do more fun or silly things with characters like her. I want to take the opportunity while this idea is fresh.
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Let's talk about Xerath
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3 Days Ago 06:22 PM
Xelnath
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General Discussion
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Xelnath
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Game Systems Designer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundershatter
If I may ask, what ever happened to the idea that locus of power made Xerath immune to displacement abilities, such as Alistar's headbutt?
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It's in, hooked up to his ultimate, and probably massively OP. We'll find out for sure in testing.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:17 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prkl8r
OMG, you WERE going to make that? Even had it in game?! PLEASE I WILL PAY REAL LIFE MONIES! ALL OF THE MONIES!
If you don't remember, I was the one that assumed it would be made a skin in another thread we were talking about skins that were upgrades of the classic in.
Alternatively, finish that legendary this summer.
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As I've said, that's the tricky thing about skins and content creation in general. Omen is a fantastic case. Tons of people wanted Omen to happen once we showed that he was once a possibility. However, since I was the artist working on him, I can tell you first hand what a disaster it was. It was not up to quality, it was extremely confusing, and it was a product which was not a worthwhile endeavor. Nonetheless, once people know about him, they asked for him regardless of the context, assumed, and theorycrafted.
I'm comfortable talking about some scrapped content because I can give the context and assurance that we can produce better.
Again, with this particular skin, even though some people might want it, it's most likely going to not be as widely appealing as we'd like, and we have to consider the cost/benefit situation.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:10 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ïñtëgrïty
See this ?
This is the exact reason I love you guys. It's easy to get in touch with someone. You're not sitting on your throne of diamond, too busy counting your money to bother with peasants like us.
I read through all the pages and I like where this is going.
However, as a HUGE Leona fan, I gotta ask a favor. I know this is NOT your job but...
Please, don't make Sunbathing Leona a Legendary skin. I mean, literally. Keep this priviledge for a more Lore-oriented theme that makes sense (Seen some pretty good suggestions on page 4, I believe...Like Sun Godess or something). It's not that I'd hate seeing her Legendary-quality but hell, if you're going to make something Legendary, I'd prefer something along the lines of Blood Lord Vladimir (Which still makes sense to me...)
Also : Y U NO POST ART ? :3
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The sun bathing/beach theme isn't strong enough to warrant such a massive artistic effort. It's a cute idea, it's not a fundamental enhancement of the character.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:08 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHammerStrike
While I'm no artist (amateur economist and photographer) I have to say this thread has been an interesting and educational read, thanks Iron.
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*click*
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 06:05 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostile Miku
so why couldn't it just be called "Hostess Ahri"?
captures both with a simple name change
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Like I've said, I personally have no attachment or real knowledge on the trope. If it's a legit thing, that has potential to a) have mass appeal to Ahri players, and b) hits the popular culture notes, then I'm all for it. As of now I'm not convinced, but I'm far from an expert on the matter.
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@ Iron-Stylus: Ahri
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3 Days Ago 06:02 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawke Solaris
Hi Iron Stylus!
I've been a huge fan of your work and yourself. I particularly love reading what you have to say on the forums as you're typically humorous and extremely informative whilst not losing a single trace of your humanity.
I came before you this fine time to ask you for your opinion as an artist about Ahri. How do you feel about her artistically? Are you satisfied with her? Would you consider some things in need of changing or improving perhaps?
Tell me a secret 
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I'm neither here nor there on her for the most part. I've said some stuff about her in the past, as this thread mentioned, but I'm not sure my opinion is really solidified.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 05:58 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellioning
But that's BORING. I mean, I understand it might be hard to make a profit on those skins, but if it's a choice between 'a few people like this skin a lot' and 'most people kinda like this skin' I'd rather have the first one.
Are there any silly skins in the work for anyone, by the way? I'm feeling we're getting far too serious with champion and skin releases.
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No, it's not boring, it's capturing the essence of a skin's concept while making it simultaneously appealing to a multitude of players. It's perfectly logical and attainable. Good ideas shine through despite regional/cultural differences.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 04:52 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLazySwordsman
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I'm going to see what I can do about it.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 04:51 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostile Miku
God, Leona players are so lucky to have the lead designer love her so much
Even though a lot of the community want it, DJ Sona will never come out 
and it goes for a lot of community flavored skins too...K-Pop Ahri...probably never going to happen
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I'm very pro-DJ Sona, but I'll say that I'm not pro "Girls Generation" or K-Pop Ahri as I've seen it presented so far. Here's the reason.. If GG Ahri is indeed something globally appealing, then I'm all for it. When I first saw the posts about it I was like.. "Wait, she's an airline pilot?" I had to dig a little deeper and I'm not really cool with players having to do that just to get the base context of the skin. It's gotta stand on its own.
However, if it's something we deem as really appealing, or say that it's realy locally appealing to the South East Asian region, and it would provide a ton of value, love, and simultaneously be something worthwhile enough for the rest of the regions to appreciate on face value, then I'm again all for that.
It's the same reason I'm not for sport specific skins, North American-centric trope skins, "meme" skins, and other content that really only appeals to a niche. If our priority however achieves a) an awesome skin at face value, and then b) hits those little niche notes, again, all for it.
La Llorona Morgana, Gladiator Draven, and Special Forces Gangplank are really good examples of skins that are based on cool themes from their respective inspirational regional sources but they are, on a very surface level, just really kickass skins.
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How do you guys feel about the Rune Combiner?
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3 Days Ago 04:34 PM
Damiya
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 03:30 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainMċrvelous
You lied to me Stylus.
You said Sunbathing Leona would be real.
You broke my heart Styloos
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What are you talking about? I'm telling you that barring some major issue Sunbathing Leona will be released. But again, there might be some unforeseen big issue so I can't just make a blanket statement of assurance.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 03:28 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsonpuppies
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Hippalus been stating the value of a skin is based off the production cost, and not what we actually see on the customer's end? So you're going to charge the same thing regardless of the actual quality that we see...like with Special Weapon Zac. Don't worry guys, I know you don't see much more than a pallette swap, but we spent a LOT of time and resources on it so you need to spend 975. Know what I mean?
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I'm in no way qualified to answer pricing questions. I cannot speak to value from a conceptual, theme and art side of things.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 03:27 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamBoozler
Well it makes me happy to know you guys are putting a lot of thought and effort into your content(especially leona content!)
Parrot for President!
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We do honestly.
Here, this is something I think I can talk about since I feel the dust has settled around it a little.
One of the cancelled Leona skins was Leona in the ancient armor of the Solar seen in the Diana teaser. We thought of an angle that was Leona discovering the relic armor which was akin to Diana's relic armor. We found an interesting lore loophole that allowed for this because its said in her bio that only the sword and shield were passed down generationally from one avatar to another. It was an interesting way to further the story, and I've very much wanted to explore the idea of canon lore skins. Traditionally they haven't been popular but I thought there was an opportunity there.
Unfortunately, we got it in game and it very much looked like a cross between her base and the Iron Solari skin. We decided that wasn't enough of a strong theme to warrant a skin. It just wasn't really special enough.
It was discussed that maybe a way to accomplish this same idea was to eventually develop Legendary skin that felt very substantial. Leona x10 in a way. We could then anchor it to her story but still make it amazing just on the surface if a player didn't care about the story context. So, that's what we opted to do. Currently there's no skin in development for that, but its something I want to explore later as a way to help continue the story.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 03:16 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderForHegemon
This is one of the coolest looks at the nebulous inside of skin creation that we've ever had. It was an honor parrot.
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Yeah, I should really try to shed some light onto the process.
There's ONE BIG danger in it though. We don't want to promise something then not deliver. It's very dangerous to give so much insight or transparency into the process where we're showing everything we're doing and 1) possibly ruin surprise and interest, 2) raise expectations we can't deliver on, and 3) show or talk too much about what we create and then do throw away, because some players will indeed "want what they can't have" simply because the thing does exist in some form, even though we deem it as subpar.
It's often hard to appraise value on a skin, and we simply don't want to half ass something. And if we do make something that we feel didn't hit the mark, it sucks to have to be like, "Guys, we know you might want this thing, but trust us, it wasn't the best execution on our part, sorry!" That's the toughest part. Basically keeping something form players which we know isn't as valuable as its perceived to be externally minus the development context.
It comes down to us saying "trust us, this thing sucks", but that's hard to validate to players at times.
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 03:09 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spy Crabz
aram with me pls i wont call u loser
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Oh my, that's some incentive
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 03:06 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naked Malzahar
...Please tell us there is no Teemo on her shield
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I de-Teemo'd the board and put something more... feathery.. on it.
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Let's talk about Xerath
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3 Days Ago 03:01 PM
Xelnath
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Xelnath
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Game Systems Designer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmatorture
or do this, this idea is awesome.
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Tried that. Xerath's abilities are already all "on a delay".
I think he needs something more immediate and responsive.
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@IRONSTYLUS - SUNBATHING LEONA WHERe?
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3 Days Ago 02:59 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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Dear IronStylus, give us more Leona skins already...
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3 Days Ago 02:58 PM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
IronStylus
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Sr. Concept Artist
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So, here's a thing. Yes, Sunbathing/beach bash Leona will most likely be a reality barring some major issue or slotting problem. That does sometimes happen. I never want to set certainty that could be subject to change.
It's past the concept phase, having been fully fleshed out, and will move onto modeling. I reconcepted her after PAX for better readability and some other more thought-out touches. She'll probably move onto 3D very soon, then through the animation and particle pipeline. Depending on priority, this could be a few months, we'll see.
One of the reasons it's been a while since she's had a skin is because we actually brought a couple skins of hers up to the modeling phase, and plugged them into the game, but then realized they either weren't cutting the quality/theme bar, or the skin had to be bumped because of saturation of similar themes. These skins might some day come to release, but I'm not certain of that at all.
I don't want to really delve into what those skins were because at least one wasn't terribly strong in differentiation from her other skins. It might even only really equate to a model swap. I made a call to kill the skin and possibly focus on a legendary skin for her down the line that would be a much stronger theme than what I had produced. You actually have seen the beginning of that skin in one of the videos that was released about champion production. A picture had been circulated of an armored figure from the bust up that was very early on in iteration. That was a potential Leona skin, but again, in the end it wasnt very strong.
This can happen. We actually had a mecha-cho'gath finished and animated but it was really lame. We scrapped it and decided to make him a Battlecast skin which was a MUCH stronger theme. While sometimes skins can be cool, and we feel they're neat ideas, until we get it plugged into the game we don't really know if the skin will work.
Concept art can't solve all the problems up front. Concept, meaning "idea", is just that. Until our 3D brows get that thing walking round, only then can we know that it works 100%. So while it can be unfortunate that we have to kill content that we know some players will want, we want to make sure we're delivering the right thing at the right time, and these particular unreleased skins weren't hitting the bar. My hope is that we can revisit them and make them work! Who knows!
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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3 Days Ago 02:21 PM
Xypherous
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Public Beta Environment
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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So rather than take the position that these items are detrimental to these champions because they prevent you from making more interesting choices, isn't it more correct to say that there simply aren't any other choices available?
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I can easily point to Gunblade limiting hybrid champion build options because whenever Gunblade has been good at had to be balanced around, we've continuously nerfed the AP ratios of the characters who could use it.
If I removed those 3 hybrid options from the game and simply increased the ratios of hybrid champions, now instead of those 3 items being their only options they now have access to every other AD or AP item in the game. It's the fact that balancing around hybrid items simultaneously forces them into those items and also takes away existing items that is so criminal here.
Quote:
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Will Doran's shield + hp pot be a saving grace for champs who often struggle top, or just something sustain champs / big bullies can grab to dominate even more?
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Unsure - we're taking it slow here. Usually highly regenerative based builds tend to favor champions who struggle rather than bullies - but that hasn't always been the case with early health items. Doran's Shield is a bit of both - so it's hard to tell what the exact results will be.
Edit: Well - I'm off. I need to actually like, eat things so that I have energy to do activities.
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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3 Days Ago 02:04 PM
Xypherous
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Public Beta Environment
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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I thought that was Wukong's thing.
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You're right - Wukong's probably a better example of the quintessential bruiser, were it not for his win rate, which is ridiculous - but no one seems to mind.
Quote:
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To be entirely honest with you his Q isn't the problem. Its the W. The amount of burst it does with Rank 1 is ridiculous, and it gets even worse when you rank it up. If you nerfed his W you could probably adjust his Q and possibly buff his E so it isn't useless before Rank 5.
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The amount of damage that 'W' does is annoying, I agree - but the thing that causes Renekton to be 'You must be this tall to pass' is the sustain leftover from Q. While nerfing the 'W' might be a good choice - his healing is what is cementing him as the barrier of entry.
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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3 Days Ago 02:03 PM
Xypherous
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Public Beta Environment
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Ever thought about a Melee ADC item that stores up energy from auto-attacking a lot and then gives the user an active that gives them single target burst physical damage?
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Yes - but in somewhere in that train of thought, I screwed up and put it on Gunblade instead.
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Anything on atma's impaler?
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Quite frankly, it'd be pretty easy to make Atma's Impaler good (make it slot-efficient, rather than gold-efficient, given how late of an item buy it is) - but we're not altogether convinced that making Atma's Impaler good would make the game better - so we've been holding off on it.
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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3 Days Ago 01:57 PM
Xypherous
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Public Beta Environment
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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How has the new Nashor's tooth been faring on Mordekaiser in internal tests? Because his base attack speed is hilariously high, 0.694 to be precise.
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Haven't tested it on Mordekaiser, personally. As far as internal testing goes - Mordekaiser isn't really a good test point because his weakness to lane ganks is extreme - but his power level when unganked is extreme as well.
It's Mordekaiser's fundamental dichotomy - but his strengths are crazy and he does well - but the merest hint of a gank completely destroys him.
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As the creator of Renekton, how do you feel about him currently? Nearly every other top laner got nerfed, yet he didn't. I mean, I love Ren and love you because you made him, but Im just curious.
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Renekton right now serves as the 'You must be this tall to enter top-lane' champion. While he's kind of obnoxious at this role, he's not the root cause of it.
He's probably slightly too strong right now and probably needs his 'Q' nerfed a little. Otherwise, he's kind of the quintessential bruiser man - one of the few we find annoying - but not egregiously so.
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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3 Days Ago 01:53 PM
Xypherous
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Public Beta Environment
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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I'm also going to assume that you're behind the jungle item changes? Not that I disagree with them. As soon as people realized how amazingly stat efficient they were, it just led to laners buying them. (Yet again.) I guess this was more a problem with Lizard and Wraith, and not golem, which feels more or less how it should in the jungle.
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This was Statikk - but in general, he felt that the Lizard item was crowding out other AD itemization and much more powerful than intended - to the point where it didn't really feel like a cool off-build from a Jungle item - and more like just a really good item that didn't have a place for Junglers anymore.
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So has Xypherous answered where the new patch is? Why was it reverted?
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If you mean the PBE patch - they deployed something but that thing had.. and keep in mind, I'm relaying like super unspecific details because I don't know all the details, these details might even be wrong - I think it had some stability issues that they were working out due to it.
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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3 Days Ago 01:48 PM
Xypherous
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Public Beta Environment
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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I know this is random, but are there any plans for Pantheon anytime soon? He has all these archaic balance issues and suffers from falling off really badly. He could use a Trundle/Taric-esque re-balancing.
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If people find Pantheon weak - we'll change him. There's a ton of ideas for Pantheon - but right now, it's not altogether clear that people dislike Pantheon or find him weak - so there's little real reason to change it. He's pretty low priority.
I'd like to take a look at him - but any changes would be more disruptive than beneficial at this point if people like who he is now.
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Xypherous care to explain the adjustment to the damage on Nautilus' W?
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Sure - we took away the thing that held Nautilus back, his early clear - and now his actual overpowered elements are coming into the forefront.
This is one of those cases where a 50% win rate didn't necessarily mean balanced. Something was holding him back - something unreasonable and out of the player's control (early clear) and we compensated it with extreme damage. Well, that's all fine and good, except it means roughly half your games are stomps and half your games, you are terrible. Hence the retuning - removing early weakness - but also removing this unnecessary damage.
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What does a world in which existing hybrid champions want to build "normal" items look like? If Rageblade and Gunblade didn't exist, can you picture a sustained-damage Akali with a BotRK and a Ravenous Hydra who spams Crescent Slash (instead of Mark) for the physical damage? A Katarina who puts emphasis on her W (instead of Q) for lots of physical PBAOE with Hydra and a Black Cleaver?
Could those designs (hyper-mobile AD near-carry, or nimble, AOE-spamming AD burster) have value in a world where Lee Sin and Zed exist?
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What you're describing isn't a hybrid build - what you're describing is something closer to the split between AP / AD Tristana than a true hybrid build - and no, I don't think they have a ton of value because we have champions that do similar thing.
The challenge of a hybrid character is that they still have to use their complete kit in order to function - but that they also have a drive to increase both AP and AD statistics. Hybrid design is tricky and often what we think of as hybrid characters were just characters whose had two "designed" AP / AD builds but ended up with the same gameplay.
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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3 Days Ago 01:37 PM
Xypherous
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Public Beta Environment
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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1. Is Warmogs still being looked at?
2. Why does Locket of the Iron Solari not build out of an Emblem of Valor, but instead builds out of its components? Since Locket is a support item- you get the question.
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1. It's regarded as weak - but more likely in a decent spot.
2. Locket doesn't built out of an Emblem of Valor because it was re-designed as a sister item to Aegis of the Legion. In effect, because Locket and Aegis function so well together - we didn't initially want to introduce anything that caused the pairing to clash.
As for why Aegis builds out of Emblem of Valor now - it was some weird principle that the keystone aura item should be an aura item at all points, including lane - which is ironic given that Aegis is frequently built by the Jungler.
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Wait, what on Earth is Nashors for then? It's attractive to a very narrow band of champions.
Would it be that brutal to have a simple dual penetration item for hybrids? It's not like massive itemization effort is mandatory, they are missing essentially one basic hole in their arsenal.
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Nashor's tooth allows the potential for a large group of existing champions to branch out into a subtype (autoattacking) and synergizes with champions that work well with it.
However, core hybrid itemization, when balanced, does not allow either AD or AP to branch out in such a fashion. A balanced gunblade does not help any AD or AP character aspire to any aspect of their character.
As for dual penetration %, think about how much % penetration it would take to rival Last Whisper or Void Staff. You are dealing split-damage already. Thus, any advantage of % penetration is cut in half. This is mitigated somewhat by lopsided resistances of the opponent - but then it's hard to argue that Last Whisper or Void Staff wouldn't simply be better in that regard then.
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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4 Days Ago 01:28 PM
Xypherous
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Public Beta Environment
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Hmm, then in the spirit of allowing hybrid characters the flexibility to build to various points in that range, wouldn't it make sense to tune the hybrid characters to be viable with non-hybrid items, and then tune the hybrid items to be balanced against those characters to fit in the middle of that range, rather than trying to tune the hybrid characters to fit the hybrid items?
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That's definitely a good approach to take - the issue you run into there is that any hybrid item will then be seen as prohibitively weak by any non-hybrid character. How big an issue of that is up to you to decide - but they'll be seen as dead items by a majority of the character pool.
In a world where there was many hybrid champions - that'd definitely be the ideal approach to take. In a world dominated by more standard scaling champions - it'd be mostly taking up space in the item store.
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Will the new Doran's Shield allow for melees to compete in the duo lane space?
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Hopeful - but most likely it won't. For Melee to compete in the duo lane space - they have to somehow be able to farm at range and be item scaling rather than level scaling.
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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4 Days Ago 01:21 PM
Xypherous
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Public Beta Environment
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Also, btw, I get that it's probably prohibitive to do so when the only hybrids are Jax, Kayle and Akali. I guess I'm just asking the question of whether or not more items would help solve the problem, so that Gunblade isn't the only thing to build and it doesn't have to fill all the roles that other items would have to fill. If Gunblade was, say, the Rabacap of hybrid builds, providing the most efficient stats, but without any of the bonus survivability or utility of, say, Rylai's or Zhonya's, maybe then it wouldn't be super strong. And, at the same time, it'd provide for more survivable versions of hybrid items.
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More hybrid items would definitely make hybrid characters stronger - which means you'd have to go back and nerf all the scaling on these characters to the point that Jax would never ever consider picking a hybrid item that wasn't from this hybrid set.
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Namely, why are you reverting the decision to prevent people from buying potions with a Doran's item? Even if it's only on the shield and ring, and only one potion with a shield.
I'd be incredibly interested in seeing the reasoning behind it.
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The problem we had with the old Doran's items starting with a potion is that no one ever died. Health Quints, starting potions and Doran's items created an odd environment where most people started with 650 to 800 health and a potion.
We live in a very different world now - where level 1 fights are terrifyingly brutal. Some starting items with a little bit of health to them is probably healthy in this world where max health quints and max health early in general, is very difficult to rune / mastery for.
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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4 Days Ago 01:06 PM
Xypherous
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Public Beta Environment
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Xypherous
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Any chance I can get a few words of explanation about the Hecarim passive change Xypher? I'd greatly appreciate it!
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I don't really have any context here at the moment - sorry.
The reason why this context post isn't being posted by me is because the vast majority of the changes are being handled by other people. The few changes I've made on this patch are mostly starting item oriented and the removal of Malady.
As far as I know, I think the assessment is that Hecarim doesn't need it and it's greatly increasing his dive strength and escape power. I believe that while 'E' is up, he will still ignore unit collisions however. I believe the contention here is that Hecarim is still really strong and further numerical balance without removing this strength would start to get pretty dire, in terms of nerfing his end-game survivability and damage.
Ignore Unit Collision is a terrifying fighter statistic - as I've said before when this was brought up for boots. :x
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So Riot, please consider not removing Malady from the game. I can't know if you've seen this, but I hope I'll get to discuss with you about it, even if your answer is negative. As for WE, I don't really mind the change.
Cheers
-Borand
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Reading your post - there's a number of following flaws:
Malady building into Lich Bane doesn't make a lot of sense - the fundamental triggers are wrong - one is contigent on spellcasts and follows a rythym based gameplay - and adding attack speed onto Lich Bane destroys the item for any champion focused on spell weaving.
Secondly, the concern about being able to build Malady early enough for the passive to matter is somewhat flawed because by the time you rush the item - you *still* don't have anything to synergize with that playstyle. A 1500 gold item that gives your attacks AP scaling doesn't work because you don't have any AP to go along with that.
While your main concern seems to be 'let Nashor's Tooth' be its own thing and that removing Malady removes one playstyle from the game - this hinges on the assumption that Nashor's Tooth is an actual existing playstyle or that Malady is an actual existing playstyle. The truth is that currently neither of them truly work individually unless they are overpowered - the goal here is to create one actual playstyle from 2 disfunctional ones. If it works, we can then see about adjusting the style so the build path or build-up is smoother if we find it interesting space.
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[Art] Unprepared Garen skin - Its "Sexy"
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4 Days Ago 01:05 PM
Riot NeuroCat
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Fan Art
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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4 Days Ago 12:58 PM
Xypherous
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Public Beta Environment
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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What is the Ideal Hybrid like? How does their playstyle change when this Hybrid picks the AD-heavy build? What about when they go AP? When they go half-and-half?
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If you want the bluntest expression of a hybrid character - recall Kayle's old passive which I will always miss even though it made her explode and hyperscale.
You *could* not be anything but a hybrid character with that passive. Your attack damage was ability power and vice-versa. Every item improved every facet of your character, whether you wanted it to or not.
It's blunt, crude and possibly the purest expression of what it means to be hybrid to me.
As for playstyle changes - it depends on the passives and statistics which you favored. A hybrid playstyle looks remarkably similar to every hybrid character - except for the player playing him who is familiar with exactly how he wants to build or play.
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Then there needs to be a reason for people like Akali to like AD. Right now Akali recieves three benefits from AD. Passive, E and obviously AAs. AAs isn't very big and her E is mostly for wave clear or a last resort to get a kill on something.
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I agree with you on that - Akali as a hybrid character, is really odd because she really doesn't want to autoattack much. Nothing gives her a chance or an opportunity to - which is why I suspect the AP build is the default - and that any hybrid items created simply augment the AP build, if they're good.
I'm not sure what you could do to change that - or if making Akali more AA focused would be a good change now. It certainly doesn't fix her current problems if you made AD stronger on her.
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This argument hinges most of its strength on the incentive to go hybrid being ap/ad ratios. The man incentive to build AD shouldn't be ratios, it should be autoattacks. So Kayle / Jax should buy it because they want to have a balance of ability and autoattack damage (presumably burst vs sustained damage) The fact that most hybrids are incentivized to go hybrid to maximize both (I think Kayle avoids this, as do some pure melees, but those mostly build tank anyway) is more of a problem with bad hybrid design rather than bad items.
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True but items don't help bad or good hybrid design. My argument mostly rests on the fact that hybrid items hurt a well-designed hybrid rather than help it by restricting the pool of items that the character could build to have a balance of both (if that's even a goal of 'good' hybrid design.)
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"Lollipoppy! What have you done to Noxus Poppy?!"
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4 Days Ago 12:56 PM
Damiya
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General Discussion
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Damiya
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Technical Analyst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Pete
it would be impossible to take that red seriously
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So we're talking about a status quo change, then
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"Lollipoppy! What have you done to Noxus Poppy?!"
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4 Days Ago 12:52 PM
Damiya
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General Discussion
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Damiya
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Technical Analyst
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Well I know a certain Red who's getting a new icon come Monday..
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceAttorney72
That's NEVER a good idea.
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To err is... human
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"Lollipoppy! What have you done to Noxus Poppy?!"
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4 Days Ago 12:38 PM
Damiya
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General Discussion
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5/17/2013 Context Post - PBE for Patch 3.08
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4 Days Ago 12:37 PM
Xypherous
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Xypherous
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Then please fix it. I would love to be able to play Akali, have mutliple build options and not be binary (less so now, it's more you lose 60% of the time because you can't contribute late game due to dead or low damage).
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Convincing people that the best thing for their hybrid characters is to have no hybrid items at all is difficult at best.
The other aspect of this is that the hybrid characters we have don't actually take advantage of hybrid scaling - they need a much heavier focus on basic attacks if they were to dip into the advantages of AD.
You have a handful of characters who hybrid scale - but don't actually benefit from a hybrid playstyle of attacks and spells - hence the drive for sheer raw statistical power. They don't actually benefit from building any of the AD items - nor does their playstyle synergize with some of the more focused AP items like Zhonya's and the like. If you take a look at the line that connects Kayle, Akali and Jax, the common thread is that they almost all rely on going nuclear at some point through sheer statistical might.
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Hmm... what you say seems to make sense, and yet also seems not to. How is this problem fundamentally different from characters with only AD ratios being locked into only using AD items, characters with only AP ratios being locked into only using AP items, etc.?
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It's not a fundamental difference in the problem. It's a difference in expectation.
When you pick a ranged carry - you expect to do ranged carry like things. Kill dudes with your ranged attack - harass with spells - train on people. You have a specific set of needs and you are trying to accomplish them.
Similarly, when you pick a mage - you want to kill people with abilities. You could care less for your basic attack. You hit buttons - they die in a wildfire.
However, what do you expect out of a hybrid character? The flexibility to do both - or run a range from whatever you want it to be. Focused hybrid items kill that - because they demand that you build them. You don't get to choose what range you are from 'burst caster' to 'sustained drain-tanker' - you only get to build the hybrid items because your ratios have been tuned around these inflated items to exist.
It goes against the base expectation of flexibility or 'jack of all trades' nature that the hybrid scaling seems to promise you in the first place.
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