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Thread / Thread Starter
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Developer Post
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Forum
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The true evolution
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1 Week Ago 08:21 AM
Solcrushed
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General Discussion
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Solcrushed
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Live Game Designer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTemptragon
That sounds pretty awesome. Stats as well, or only the enhanced abilities?
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Stats too, since one of the common complaints about Viktor is that the Core feels like a waste of a slot late game.
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The true evolution
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1 Week Ago 08:16 AM
Solcrushed
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General Discussion
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Let's talk about Xerath
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1 Week Ago 02:36 AM
Xelnath
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General Discussion
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Xelnath
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Game Systems Designer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChupaChups95
Xelnath, I know you are addressing concerns about Xerath's lack of popularity regardless of having a 51% win rate because of his 1% hardcore fanbase. But so far, I'm not even sure if you are taking any of the suggestions and feedback from his 1% hardcore fanbase.
A lot of dedicated Xerath players in the thread urges NOT to change anything because it ruins the champion they already know and feel just to appeal to the masses that dislikes him due to him being boring. But the way your responses are written, it doesn't seem you have acknowledged that some dedicated Xerath players, like me, who dislikes the changes (moving R to W and vice versa) or any changes at all. Its like you have only taken feedback from players who doesn't like Xerath for being very boring, lackluster, etc (which I personally think isn't true, probs my biased opinion). It seems like you have only been taking suggestions from people who doesn't main him or understand him fully and ignoring the suggestions from the people who mains him and understands his ins and outs.
I just want to be assured that you know and recognize the fact that a lot of people (generally his 1% fanbase) who mains Xerath doesn't want changes to be made on any of his current abilties and would rather have a very small change on either his passive (which isn't overly necessary but would be nice) or a visual/audio rework (for those who think his visuals and sound effects are lackluster).
Sure we haven't tried the new reworked Xerath, but if we do and we (his dedicated fanbase) dislikes it, can we be assured that all changes can be reverted? And if it can not be reverted, can I be given an option to refund Xerath and the Scorched Earth Xerath skin I purchased? I purchased Scorched Earth Xerath because its great and main I him mid along side other unpopular unorthodox champions on my pool including Syndra and Viktor (which again on Viktor, I think only needs a small QoL changes on his Augments, rather than a whole rework).
He may simply not need any of these changes. Scorched Earth Xerath successfully brought the immersion needed to make his skills look powerful. Maybe a visual/sound update is all that is needed for his other skins? Also, he and Viktor are 6300 ip each which may lead to reasons why both aren't seen that much.
If you can, can you please prioritize suggestions from his dedicated fanbase rather than other people who thinks they know what they are doing with Xerath. Because at the end of the day, if that 1% fanbase didn't like the changes because any of their say aren't in it, then that means dedicated fans like me would be hella disappointed. I mean, some of the suggestions are reasonable but some just make me cringe as I read it.
There is a reason why that 1% are still playing and enjoying Xerath as we speak. Please don't disappoint them.
Its like phones really. A guy has a Sony Xperia Z or whatever. Its underrated but unique and pretty, made out of high quality materials and stuff. Then you suddenly take it away and gave him a Samsung Galaxy S4 which is made out of plastic but don't worry, its more powerful with that 8 cores and stuff, more generic and more mainstream. Its still android running behind it but both doesn't feel the same because one runs on a very simple skin while the other is filled to the brim with bloatware. And being that guy, he would be pissed because he would have to relearn a new phone again despite being android which he may or may not like.
I apologize if the post is wonky, I wrote this at 3:30am. Thats how concerned I am.  |
There are about 30 posts from people saying "Don't change him." Several of them are duplicates from the same posters. Yet those threads have not said "Don't change X about him."
This generic feedback says either: "I'm comfortable with him." "I like playing a champion other people don't understand" "I like playing him as a ranged assassin." or just "I like playing a champion who is hard to control".
It's impossible for me to tell from the "Don't touch him!" feedback. They need to be able to explain what aspect of his character they like. Then I can better understand which features of Xerath are:
- Memorable
- Unique
- Overtuned
- Lacking Counterplay
- Well done
Then I can make sure we're preserving the right things, changing the bad things and creating a better Xerath experience for *everyone* in league. Including the pro-Xerath fans. (Of whom I count myself.)
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 01:02 AM
Phreak
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath
No way! That's not unbalanced enough.
Now if you evolve Kha'zix W, it can strike allies and give them a temporary GA upon death.
However... they respawn as Draven until they die.
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That's massively overpowered. Well done.
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My reaction when
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1 Week Ago 12:45 AM
Xelnath
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Xelnath
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Game Systems Designer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chihaya Kisaragi
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This is... adorable!
*cries*
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 12:43 AM
Xelnath
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General Discussion
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Xelnath
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Game Systems Designer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak
If I evolve his W, I make my targets revive after a few seconds in an egg?
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No way! That's not unbalanced enough.
Now if you evolve Kha'zix W, it can strike allies and give them a temporary GA upon death.
However... they respawn as Draven until they die.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 12:37 AM
Phreak
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath
Brilliant idea! Xerath now gets Anivia's passive.
Let's give Kha'zix Anivia passive too while I'm at it...
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If I evolve his W, I make my targets revive after a few seconds in an egg?
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Let's talk about Xerath
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1 Week Ago 12:36 AM
Xelnath
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General Discussion
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My reaction when
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1 Week Ago 12:24 AM
IronStylus
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General Discussion
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 12:20 AM
Xelnath
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Xelnath
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Game Systems Designer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion
You should give Kog'Maw Anivia's passive.  |
Brilliant! Riot let's name Ziggs explosion after him!
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 12:17 AM
Xelnath
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General Discussion
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Xelnath
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Game Systems Designer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous
It's awesome and someone else stealing MK's thunder should be shot.
Much like Anivia's Passive.
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Brilliant idea! Xerath now gets Anivia's passive.
Let's give Kha'zix Anivia passive too while I'm at it...
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PBE: Heads-up to Corki, Tristana and Kha'zix players
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1 Week Ago 12:07 AM
Xelnath
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Public Beta Environment
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Xelnath
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Game Systems Designer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Menace
Is this fix also applied with the upcoming champion Aatrox?
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No, it's not. We want to apply it, but currently, it causes an assertion in the pathing engine. I'm attempting to fix it, but I'm having a hard time getting the game to compile on my machine. #FirstWorldGameDevProblems.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 11:35 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
If we had another move block skill, a dash that could only be used towards enemy champions, which deflected / negated projectiles and made them invulnerable for a fraction of a moment, would that not be a great solution for melee carries?
It would give skilled players a way to bypass the magic-damage when it matters and get down the damage they need to deal.
It would sacrifice the power of having an escape, which is a huge thing to give up, for superior combat survivability and possibly a larger move-block.
Example Spell - Phase Out:
Dash/Blink in the direction of an enemy champion, becoming invulnerable for 0.75 seconds.
Range: 600
Cooldown: 180 seconds.
The intent being, it could be used to get behind an enemy champion but never away; making it purely an initiation or repositioning tool.
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How well do you think Alpha Strike works? Because that's what this is, it sounds like?
Or is the free-targetting really important here - like casting it 'kinda towards but not really' an enemy champion?
I'm not sure it would solve their problems - it doesn't seem like their ability to get into a fight is a problem, nor is it really an issue for them to get into the backrow of a fight - that's my gut reaction. Although, I guess the claim here is that they need another phase out dash?
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Xyph i'd like to know your opinion on AoE based champions in S3 like Vladimir, Morde, etc. Since the introduction of Runic Bulwark (a very cost effective item), Locket and flat magic pen nerfs i feel like their role in teamfights and damage got a lot worse considering how some of them have low utility compared to other AP mages. But overall i feel like Vlad was the one that got hit really hard, especially after the 20 base damage nerf on Tides of blood before the season 2 WC and after that we got S3 with the items mentioned
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I don't know much about Vladimir these days, admittedly. Sorry. I know Mordekaiser does pretty well win-rate wise - he's just super binary which causes everyone to think he's far weaker than he is.
The Flat Penetration nerfs certainly hit them hardest because they have weaker laning phases than most, and so relied on the flat penetration to carry them through lane. However, Void Staff is completely crazy - I'll ask about Vladimir when I get the chance.
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You (not you, but you know what I mean) reworked her massively. However, while comparing with the two reworked champions (Sej and Trundle)that mantained a lot of their original gameplay and concept (Karma didnt, IMO), Karma didnt reach the ''sucess'' (read more winrate/userate) that Sej and Trund. My question is: what is your opinion on Karma's case? (You are totally forgiven if you know few of Karma's case)
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I don't really like talking about Karma - I kind of prefer leaving that to Scarizard. I will say that we completely screwed up her release balance to an extreme extent and it really sucks that we did because we just didn't deliver the day one expectations. I feel like the kit has a much better flow to it - but I still wish we kept two mantra charges.
Trundle was a lot easier than Karma, because Trundle already worked - for the most part. It was just getting people to realize that it worked through some visibility changes. Sejuani was overpowered before the remake - and the remake has done nothing but make that even more obvious - so that was also slightly easier.
Okay okay... I need to eat foods and then possibly pass out. Sorry guys - Not going to be responding any more to this thread - Night all.
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Fellow Touhous Unite!
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1 Week Ago 11:23 PM
Wiksy
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Off Topic Discussion
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 11:20 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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With a few exceptions, defensive spells are instantaneous and buff-oriented. In your response, you indicate that your basic idea of a defensive spell would give the melee adc a temporary armor/mr buff. I think this is a problem. When defensive abilities are instant and buff-oriented, they ignore the rules of counterplay that make offensive abilities so satisfying in this game. These kinds of defensive abilities are often highly satisfying to use but highly frustrating to play against. Nobody wants to see their burst go down the drain cause ap yi cast meditate while my spells were still in flight. The trick is to make defensive abilities more fun to play against, and for that to happen, there must be clear counterplay options. My suggestions were visible countdown timers and skillshot-sequence defensive spells, but those are just some beginning ideas.
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My statement was that temporary defensive bonuses basically equate to permanent defensive bonuses for the most part - as having the defense for most of the team fight, is, in general, as good as having it up all the time - regardless of how you get it.
You can throw a bunch of hoops or gates to lock those bonuses away from players until they do some specific action to add skill to obtaining that defense - but in general, the final thing you've created when it "works" is a tanky dude with a lot of autoattack damage.
So much depends on the actual defense ability in general though - because if it's risky, the character is binary if he misses and if it's not risky, you've just got another gap closing, tanky, autoattack man on you. I think it could be a cool character - I'm just not sure you can solve the current melee ADCs with that paradigm.
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I feel like there should be room for champion design like this, with a kit built around it that requires the skill. Abilities could be dodges, gap-closers, speed-ups, AS boosts, etc. But right-clicking is the primary way to kill someone. QWER would just support that playstyle, they would not become the direct method of killing people.
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A character based around AA-steroids, dodges, gap closers and melee enhancers with a super hard hitting autoattack?
What if you gave them 4 gap closers?
I made that character and it's still a fighter, at the end of the day.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 11:10 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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In my opinion, Reset on Kill incentivizes skilled gameplay. At the very least, it's the most useful when there's a skill gap between the players.
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From what I've seen, Reset on Kill doesn't seem to incentivize skilled gameplay as much as simply punish the losing team for losing.
It does create enormous high moments though - but they've generally come at considerable cost (Darius / Katarina) for example. I'm not sure if we've done the mechanic entirely correctly - there's facets that are good and bad.
In general, reset on kill tends to favor low elo over high elo - which means that it generally decreases in power as skill level increases. However, the flashiness of said resets increases as skill level increases.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 11:06 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
You make it sound like melee carries don't have this for some reason.
To be fair most of the current melee carries can't orb-walk to save their lives but a varierty of others can. For example gankplank is amazing at it (if you do it well enough you can even bodyblock) and Jarvan can also orb-walk quite well with his 175 range.
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While I'm not sure either of those characters can be classified as melee carries - the basic principle is the same - how much skill differential and power does that buy you? Is it enough to overcome the power of focus fire and coordination?
If that were the case, Yi would already be viable because people could show how awesome they were with how well they can control their right-clicks.
Or the old Jax wouldn't have been a problem, because you could tell that at low ELO, the old Jax obviously didn't know how to right-click properly and didn't know how to melee.
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Xypherous, how do you feel about non-junglers (Ezreal, Jayce etc.) building the spirit stone upgrades? Is it nice variability for itemization, or were these items supposed to be niche to junglers and is it actually hampering their ability to feel unique as characters?
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I'm not hugely concerned with non-laners building the spirit stone upgrades, unless the Spirit Stone items are incredibly game warping on lanes or become core items on a large set of people.
So a few scattering of characters grabbing spirit stone upgrades is actually neat - it'd be worrisome if the Spirit Stone items became required carry items for example, across all carries or something.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 10:53 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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When are Udyr, Trundle, Rengar, etc. going to see damage/tank itemization that allows them to play the game more how they want to play it (not as a tank, not as a glass cannon, but as an inbetween.) There's only so much Omen can do, and Maw still is nowhere near the power of hourglass.
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I suppose it would be at the same time that all their innate defenses get ripped out of their kits, or enough of their innate damage ripped out of their kits so they actually need damage.
I get the game you're *trying* to make of the 'mid-tier' soldier being the best class that you should see the most of, similar to the new Tribes and such - but I don't see that being true for our game.
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This logic is fundamentally flawed. I agree that Morde does good damage in teamfights/trades at ranged. But as far as farming? Nah, you are gonna use E to farm, and auto push the lane. You are gonna use Q to get a last hit/trade in, and auto push the lane. You are gonna pop W to trade/deny a last hit with resistances on a minion, and auto push the lane. So the only way to effectively farm without opening yourself up to an easy gank is to auto attack, and most good mages right now will brutally punish you for doing so.
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The statement was made in respect to 'Melee needs gap-closers because otherwise they get kited' - Morde doesn't really get kited - he gets caught and dies.
What you're hitting on is one of the more fundamental problems with Mordekaiser - in that, for however "strong" his shield is, his lane is actually incredibly susceptible to ganks and all-ins.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 10:44 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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So, let's be honest here. We melee carry players who want a champion that nearly and almost entirely right-clicks, come mid to late game (like their range bretheren) isn't going to ever happen in LoL, is it?
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If that's the playstyle you desire, it's not going to happen - because, that play pattern doesn't effectively scale with skill.
If that's the viability you desire, it also constrains the skill level at which you can play at, because effectively, what you're asking is 'I want to not think about anything but clicking once on a man and winning.'
Contrast that with ranged carries, where the act of right clicking is actually pretty intricate, with orb-walking, positioning and target selection - the right click of a melee doesn't actually have all that many levers to express skill with.
If we're being 'honest' - let's be honest about what that implies as well.
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So can you answer my question about Fiora? Wouldnt an auto attack reset on e make more sense then attack speed? Her E can be kited out and it doesnt synergize with her R at all.
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Her 'E' does reset her autoattack - it just happens slightly later than the norm - roughly 0.25 seconds.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 10:39 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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Anything on graves, corki or other ranged carries that have fallen off?
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We made a couple changes to Corki a while back - it'll take some time to resurface. Graves still seems some spot play - he's not really in the worst of spots.
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That's why I suggested a defensive stat scaling off of crit, like dodge.
The big deal there is that dodge based on crit helps somewhat for defense, but it'd be more effective by armor, and health, and crit chance, and on its own only protects against ranged auto-attack kiting--which is what melee ADC needs.
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Mages actually tend to be the ones to destroy melee ADC mid-game - while ranged carries are capable of auto-attack kiting, if you look at the people thought of as "traditional" AD carries (Trynd/Yi/Fiora) - none of them can really be kited all that effectively (okay.. okay.. Fiora can be kited.)
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 10:34 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
I'll be honest, why can't you just go the route of old Jax? He built glass cannon (and could really only do that), and got survivability by doing so that gave him enough to last through the team-fight (new Jax is very very much more bruiser-esque as he can itemize for CDR and still be just as effective) while dishing out damage at least on par with some ranged ADCs.
He was super weak and bad early game, but a monster if fed late---I thin that's generally what melee carry players want, really; something like old Jax
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If melee carry players simply want a character that can 1v5 an entire team at 45 minutes - that's not a gameplay style we're willing to provide. The melee 'hypercarry' has a lot of fun at the expense of everyone else in the game not mattering, including those on his own team.
There's a reason we remade that version of Jax.
The old Jax wasn't forced to build glass cannon either, you were just doing it poorly if you built anything else, because building damage was also the best way to gain resistances.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 10:23 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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The big problem with executioners, believe it or not, was that it lost lifesteal. Lifesteal gave it a crucial place in a piecemeal crit build and let that build function properly; as far as I can tell, they accidentally destroyed that build for no particular reason.
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We actually killed it because if the item was ever popular enough in an environment where heavy lifesteal was required in lane - the item would have to become one of your first complete items.
Basically, in S3 testing with lanes, everyone just rushed Exec's calling - you had to. It had a similar lane warping scenario to BoRK.
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If yes, please explain Mordekaiser. He is the "New Eve" and I don't really want to have to wait 2 years for you guys to fix him.
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Just because your autoattack is melee, doesn't mean you're a melee champion. Mordekaiser functions quite well at range.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 10:20 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
@Xyperhous
Have you ever thought of lowering the CD of Akali's R (much lower then prenerf), but also lower the base damage and AP ratio?
As for a gap closer to have 100/175/250 + 0.5 AP is kinda a fat nuke and when its reseting alot it creates a massive amount of unpredictable spike damage in a short time frame due to that.
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I haven't ever thought of it - maybe it's worth pitching to Statikk? It would hamper her burst significantly which makes it tricky for her to accomplish her job of murdering someone - but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea - unsure.
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I hate to be a nag...But seriously though. Malzahar. What happened to him?
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I don't know enough about Malzahar to really say much on him - sorry. :x
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 10:16 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
Though if you listen to BestBilbo, this isn't interesting gameplay choices.
It's a design anti-pattern.
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Both sides actually have valid arguments in this case. It generally *is* a design problem when you create things that you cannot optimize. It leads to players feeling like they never did it "correctly." However, you weigh that with additional flexibility that poor optimization grants and the choices that it creates and whether or not most players will be able to appreciate that additional flexibility as power.
For example, Orianna's Dissonance Field is something that is probably just impossible to take advantage of the damage, the speed boost and the enemy slow consistently. However, you weigh that anti-pattern with how much added depth it adds or trade-offs it adds to the casting of that spell over the other spells and I was like net-gain, I'm putting it in.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 10:13 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
The QoL fixes Syndra received were great and as far as her single target burst goes she is wonderful, but I was wondering would it be possible when she uses her R to have any extra orbs she casts splash/redirect to another/nearest champion if the original target reaches 0hp before all orbs hit?
I feel great when I use her R, but then wonder did my target deserved that tons of damage? (example such as taking out an adc where it is almost garenteed to be overkill if you have several orbs out)
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Syndra is kind of a weird character, because her skill level  ower curve is vastly disproportionate to every other character in our game. Where most champions either don't scale well with game skill (i.e. dropping win rate vs. skill level) or scale roughly with game skill (constant win rate vs. skill level) - Syndra is heavily imbalanced in this aspect. Syndra's win rate rockets as skill level increases - to an absurd level.
I think the only other similar champion is Olaf.
It just makes making any changes to Syndra crazy because her power is fairly inaccessible and borderline ridiculous simultaneously.
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He has all of this stuff it seems from the champion reveal. Are you all going to allow him to be a strong pick or is he going to end up being constantly hated on like your other fighters?
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Playing against Aatrox, he's nowhere near as strong as most of our other fighters in top lane. He may have all the characteristics that Morello is talking about and he's definitely somewhat annoying to fight against (anyone with a rebirth passive is kind of annoying) - but in terms of overall power, Aatrox's Q doesn't actually hit all that hard, nor are his base damages particularly high.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 10:01 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Make melee carries reverse bruisers. That is, since bruisers have ability-gated damage, and item-based tankiness, make melee carries have ability-gated tankiness, and item-based damage.
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I don't know if I really buy into this approach - mostly because temporary tankiness of a significant duration is effectively actual tankiness anyway, because it's up when it matters.
Kind of like how Jax is the ultimate bruiser - He hits 'R', he will then never die. I don't see much of a difference between 60 armor and mr all the time and 60 armor and mr for the vast majority of a fight.
Many tanks or support-tanks, for example, only need an 8 to 10 second defense boost to be invulnerable for when it matters - (See: Leona).
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Oddly enough, I have exactly the right RP left to buy teemo on sale... 292
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1 Week Ago 10:01 PM
RiotAmes
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General Discussion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollingson
Still not buying
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Aw, come on.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:57 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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Will Aatrox be an Example of the future standard for Melee ADCs?
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I don't really even know if Aatrox is a Melee ADC. With lifesteal and a revive - it seems like you just want to build like a fighter.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:55 PM
Phreak
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General Discussion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin
Do you ever think that an ultimate that stops auto attacks doesn't fit on a champion who has literally every single ability powered by auto attacks
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Personally, no, because one is an armor shred, two don't scale with auto attacks at all, and one is a both a gap closer as well as an AS steroid. Does Kassadin feel bad for Riftwalking over a wall without dealing damage?
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:55 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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Do you ever think that an ultimate that stops auto attacks doesn't fit on a champion who has literally every single ability powered by auto attacks?
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Maybe - but at the end of the day, MK's ult is basically what allows him to function in team fights - it fits into the pattern of the game really well - It allows him to do what he needs to do in the 3/4 seconds of a team fight - die, and still feel good about it, without the continuous cost that autoattacking brings to a melee.
It also means that in a one on one scenario, his autoattack patterns can be brought to light - and thus he can duel other AA fighters equally. Although this kind of a given, seeing as how he's also a fighter with high defensive / offensive mix.
So, while it doesn't make sense from a kit perspective - in terms of what kinds of power he needs when he needs it, it actually functions rather well from an overall game perspective.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:51 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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how do you feel about Monkey King's ultimate? :P
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It's awesome and someone else stealing MK's thunder should be shot.
Much like Anivia's Passive.
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Maw didn't suck and was comparable in power to hourglass? What if there was more damage/tank itemization so Udyr/Wukong/Etc. could be played as they want to be played?
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No, the goal isn't to make STR based carries ala DoTA, who are basically invulnerable to less than 3 people when they turn on.
Since we don't use STR/AGI and we don't give tankiness - the goal is to figure out how to make glass work - because highly defensive characters that deal damage obviously work and don't need more help.
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how to prevent backdoors?
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1 Week Ago 09:50 PM
Phreak
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General Discussion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scajootable
However their Tryndamere kept backdooring all game. The game was ridiculously close, all nexus towers down, but in the end they won.
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There are a few things you need to do to deal with split pushing:
1. Teleport advantage. Can Tryndamere get out of his lane and help a team fight? If you have someone with a global or with Summoner TP, have them battle Tryndamere in lane, and shove the lane out. Then teleport into the teamfight, win 5v4, and close the game out (or win the team fight, push with the rest, and send the original combatant back to defend Tryndamere). Homeguard helps here
2. Get all lanes pushed. Typically the split pusher cannot actually backdoor without minions, he has to push the minion waves in. You buy your team a lot more time if all your lanes are up past the river. Plenty of time to send someone back if need be.
3. Fight in his lane. If you send everyone to Tryndamere's lane, you just erase all his progress. He has to go run to a different lane and get that one started. Meanwhile, you're barreling down on their base and they likely need the help.
You shouldn't be waiting around with nothing going on. You need vision. You need to get enough advance warning for Tryndamere and be decisive. Push. React in time when he does something.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:44 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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For example, if you've a pet peeve and think Zac's bull****, it'd be cool to know it. Since, you know, we could relate. And perhaps you're onto something.
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Well, for me, the pet-peeves are kind of like 'Man, isn't his Ult just Monkey King's ult with Tenacity?' There's different visuals, to be sure - but somehow, that's even more aggravating in some ways - but I don't quite know why it bothers me so much.
It could also be related to - Ask me how I feel about Monkey King's ultimate. :P
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Will you talk about your melee ADC iterations/designs/fixes? Why are you guys opting for eliminating the class in LoL by morphing them into assassin as opposed to just making melee carries viable as a class in and of itself?
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I haven't tested a lot of these yet as we've been iterating on some other stuff - but imagine if Heartseeker strike had a zero second cooldown and the channel time scaled with attack speed. Is Pantheon still an assassin? Is he a caster? Is he a sustained AD man who can kill teams if you protect him?
What if Alpha Strike had lower base values but somehow scaled off DPS - Can Master Yi penta-kill your team through a combination of AA's and Alpha's? Isn't that what he's supposed to do?
The other things are like... What if Hexdrinker had a Zeal upgrade? Melee AD Carries are vulnerable to mages mid-game but they can't keep itemizing MR, because otherwise they'll die to physical damage late game.
Stuff like that mostly - still plotting it out.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:37 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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Xypherious, please shed some light on Zac. I personally think he needs some sort of rework on his passive, his abilities cost current HP but yet his passive heals him for max HP. And his blobs drop closer to him than the enemy so you can't destroy them. He is absolutely ridiculousnly annoying/OP in the top lane.
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It's still a bit too early to talk about Zac I think - but even then I am not the right person to talk about Zac. Zac has become my recent pet-peeve and I'm not entirely rational when thinking about Zac.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:34 PM
Phreak
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General Discussion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my0w
We welcome cool new tricks for Akali. The extra utility that Twilight Shroud gives on the PBE is awesome.
But, it's not enough.
It's disappointing that we can't get a CONSISTENT answer out of any Rioter.
Statikk says that Akali was overnerfed. He thinks that buffing her Q is a possibility. He also is more open to the fact that the Shadow Dance changes were not necessary.
Furthermore, Statikk claims:
So, what's going on with Akali? We keep getting conflicting reports. I have no idea who is telling me the truth. Is Statikk correct? Is Xypherous correct?
Xypherous considers Akali's Q and R overpowered. Statikk claims that nerfing Akali's R was MOST LIKELY a bad decision on their part (unnecessary nerf). Statikk is also more reasonable to buff Akali's Q back up.
Why are you guys not consistent?
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Actually, I think Xypherous and Statikk are being rather consistent.
Q and R got nerfed because they were overpowered. They possibly got nerfed too far, which is why Statikk said things like, "Maybe" and "may have been." Just because you underline only part of the sentence doesn't change the intent of the original words. Again, Statikk states that the R nerfs may have been in the "wrong direction" not, "We shouldn't have nerfed R."
I understand you care a lot about your favorite champions. However, realize that Statikk is talking about numbers. Xypherous is talking about the theories of champion play.
Edit: Damn, Shen'd by Xypherous.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:33 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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Why are you guys not consistent?
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Well, there's a number of reasons, namely - designers disagree on certain things.
Or that you're reading into Statikk's post way too much - he never really talks about undoing the nerfs completely - just partially.
Or that I'm ridiculously exaggerating current use-cases to communicate ideas.
I get that you're heavily invested in Akali's current status - I would heartily recommend to you to just listen to Statikk - as he's the one actively looking at her - whatever he says on Akali is going to be gospel and whatever I'm saying is going to be fast and loose because I'm mostly just trying to give rough exposition of concepts and not detailed statistics.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:25 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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So what you are saying is Akali getting a rework? Since she can't be balance in low/high elo at the same time?
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Well, I mean, take a look at the change to Akali's Twilight Shroud on PBE right now. Twilight Shroud now grants vision. It's not a kit rework - but it's an example of a partial ability rework that lets us inject more ways so that Akali can outplay her opponents - which is a kind of power that does tend to scale decently with skill level.
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So the unreliability is by design.
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I agree that unreliability by design can be an interesting option - but unreliability in certain lanes (top / jungle / support) tend to be looked on much more unfavorably than unreliability in other lanes (carry / mid).
However, it does tend to lead to a lot of 'no one actually wants to play with that character on their team - because not everyone likes to gamble on winning the game. In those isolated lanes, the unreliability tends to translate into people thinking the character is weak, even if they are actually balanced.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:18 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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Riot thinks Akali was OP even though she was sporting a ~50% win rate. It's funny because pro players (e.g. scarra, Voyboy, foxdrop, etc) never considered Akali strong (let alone OP).
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In general, we change things for two reasons: Power level in competive play (AKA - why I keep pushing for more Lulu nerfs) or Gameplay problems in lower level play (AKA - why I keep pushing for Lifesteal Tank Melee to be shot, but that's a personal bias.)
You don't do numeric balance for low-level play - that's kind of rough to do. What you try to do is make sure that the power of the character scales with the skill of the environment that they're in.
Sometimes, it's impossible to do both with just numbers - that's why we do ability redesigns or kit reworks.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:11 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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All I was looking for was a yes or a no or a maybe.....
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Sorry, I was answering both you and the other Akali posts simultaneously.
For you, the answer is 'probably not.'
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:06 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
Talon "hard counters" certain mids. Probably the hardest a counter will ever get in LoL.
You pick him only then, and bam, low pick rate(cause he's situational), high success rate(because you'll be just that much better off mid/roaming).
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This is actually blind pick data that I'm drawing from.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 09:04 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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All three of the types I suggested are/can be achieved by other mages through their item selection.
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Range versus Damage is actually the trickiest one here - playing with a long range mage or a mid-range burster requires different setup. Most people can handle people having Utility versus Damage tradeoffs at similar ranges. However, range increases change the effective combat radius / zone of control for your team and coupling that with a potential damage difference amplifies that effect somewhat.
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Does this means that you guys are ruling out the possibility of re-introducing her passive requirement?
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Think of it this way:
1. Akali's Q and R were overpowered and should have been nerfed.
2. No one realized that Akali's Q and R were overpowered because sometimes her early laning phase was pitiful.
It's an analogous case with most junglers, actually:
1. Sejuani was overpowered.
2. No one thought Sejuani was overpowered, because her first clear was so bad.
Now, you could get an 'average' win rate, by reinstating the thing that held them back #2 - but all this does is create an 'average' character win rate by making it so that half the time, she obliterates you and the other half is a complete mess - which generally means that everyone still thinks they are awful - but now for different reasons 'unreliable' or 'generally painful to have on my team.'
People are more okay with this in lanes that have some push-back in bot or mid - but these traits turn out to be pretty awful in isolated situations (top) or places where people need to rely on something (support / jungle)
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The question: Is Talon's pick rate just low or too low and thus signifying a problem?
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So, Talon tends to win quite a bit - and he tends to be on average, picked more than other characters. I don't have a great explanation for why people find Talon weak - other than the fact that any experience you have playing as Talon generally starts with 15 minutes of you getting your butt kicked in lane.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 08:54 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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While I could see how Viktor's augments could have that issue, a simple 'playing ap trist, going mid' will solve the other problem, and basically everyone I've ever qued with has said as such if they're playing a champ in a spot other then what they normally fill.
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For me, that's only partially true. In a lot of ways, this is a game where people try to have fun with 4 complete strangers. I value unspoken telegraphing quite a bit as I feel like it's possibly one of the best ways to promote teamwork.
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I'm getting Google Fiber in a month.
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1 Week Ago 08:54 PM
Riot Reinboom
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General Discussion
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Riot Reinboom
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Associate Software Engineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shut It Donny
ITT: A lot of people don't understand the difference between bandwidth and ping.
Ping is a measure of time. The time it takes for the signal to make a round trip. Higher quality cables will effect this somewhat, but it is mostly a matter of distance.
Whoever started describing bandwidth in terms of "speed" really ****ed up. It confuses people.
With highert bandwidth, the information does not travel any faster. The amount of information you can get at one time is higher.
Imagine a road, one lane in either direction, You need to move 1,000 cars to a parking lot at the end of the road. On the single lane road, you can only move one car into the parking lot at a time. Now imagine you have 3 lanes in each direction. You can move 3 cars in at a time. The cars aren't arriving any faster, but you will finish 1,000 cars in less time moving 3 at once instead of 1.
This is the difference in 1MB vs 3MB and so on. Your internet is not faster. You're just moving more information at once and can finish downloading larger files in less time on higher bandwidth.
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This is a very apt metaphor actually. It can extend easily from dial-up to fiber.
Dial-up would be like a two lane road (one lane per direction) where many people are trying to turn on to to get to the highway ahead. This road is also a dangerous road, not very well protected. There are constant accidents, and due to the constant accidents constant checks to try to reduce the accident.
Both the speed of the cars traveling on it as well as the number of cars possible on it is quite low.
Eventually, after getting through that wreckage, the cars then get to travel on a super highway that energizes card in to light and shoots them across the country.
.. But you won't know that, the car returns to you (wait, why are you sending your car out without you? What is this?) in the same state it left (except maybe with groceries in haul), and even worse, it had to use that same tiny dangerous road to get back.
The initial road will likely take a good couple hundred ms to get through.
That initial road, the one before the super highway, is what's changing for each.
On cable, the initial road is a open state highway. You can travel at a comfortable speed without much worry of danger. Cars aren't cramming you in. You have it well enough.
To get from your house traveling on this road to the super highway will take likely around 10 to 20 ms.
On fiber, there IS an initial difference. You immediately come out of the gate as light, after all. You have to take a momentary break to get on your exit to the other super highway but then once there you still go the speed.
To get from your home to the super highway will likely take around 1 to 3 ms.
The problem here is that highway, despite being ridiculously fast, is still constant in that speed for all initial connections. And it can take quite a bit of time to travel on.
In all likelihood, you won't get more than - optimistically - 20 ms improvement. That is, unless the actual reason your ping is in the 70s is due to other ISP limitations (of which may or may not occur again with your fiber connection).
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 08:46 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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How about instead of doing that, allow Viktor to pick between three playstyles?
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Champions who get locked or choose between specific playstyles and have to invest gold into it tend to wreak havoc on team dynamics. It's similar to the AD / AP build problem. While it's interesting that Tristana can go AP - playing with a Tristana, only to discover that she is AP Tristana is pretty severely damaging to team compositions as a whole.
Basically, violating things that telegraph intent or playstyle to your team or violating the expectations of your team create a lot of havoc on being able to have fun when queue'ing with 4 random people.
While this could probably be solved through creative augment choices, there's a tension between making the playstyles unique and compelling *and* being able to provide a decent playing-with case for Viktor's teammates. It's a tricky path to take.
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You're not thinking about changing the targeting on Viktor's laser, are you?
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No - I believe CertainlyT just wants to go in and clean up vector targeting somehow.
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 08:35 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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Everyone thinks he's outclassed by Kha'zix and Zed.
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Generally characters with poor laning phases get looked on much much more unfavorably, regardless of their actual performance in game.
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Oh Xypherous in the thread where Xelnath was murdering you with Ironstylus' Diana blade, you were loading up a solo game as Irelia. Got any plans for her?
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Nothing for Irelia - I was just experimenting with AS/Proc itemization patterns again and she's usually a go-to test point for me with regards to 'if AS/Proc should feel good on someone, it should feel good on Irelia.'
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 08:31 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
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Xypherous please say something about Talon. The question gets dodged more than jax dodging minions.
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Sure - I can say something about that. Talon has the 5th highest win rate across characters, on average.
What's the question here?
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Champ Select should be coded in C++
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1 Week Ago 08:20 PM
Damiya
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General Discussion
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Damiya
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Technical Analyst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potato of War
Sorry Damiya, "Hello World" is not going to take any world.
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No, but it sure will greet people
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League of Legends is so obviously a Call of Duty rip off it makes me laugh
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1 Week Ago 08:18 PM
Damiya
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General Discussion
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Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?
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1 Week Ago 08:17 PM
Xypherous
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General Discussion
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Xypherous
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Technical Designer
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Quote:
1. Junglers couldn't smite during hard CC
2. Spirit Visage passive affecting shields somehow.
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1. Hm. I guess... it'd be interesting? It might make your team even more aggravated towards your Jungler for missing the Smite - but it might make sense overall from a gameplay standpoint, especially with the Smite / SV interactions.
2. Self-Shields being enhanced by spirit visage? While potentially dangerous because of how powerful it is - it could be a decent change. Spirit Visage would have to become pricier or less stat-efficient but it's not a bad idea.
Essentially, the key was that Akali, with Spellvamp turned on in lane, and Akali with zero spellvamp in lane - could not be remotely considered balanceable with either case being one of the norms.
So, there was one of two options:
1. If you don't have Akali runes, you don't get to play as Akali.
2. Rebalance the character assuming she has Spell Vamp in lane.
Seems fine for the majority of our playerbase. Ranged slow on 'W' is annoying from a design standpoint - because it turns 'W' into a hybrid phys/magic damage spell and basically forces you to evolve it first.
Competitively, he might be slightly problematic - but not overly much - also related to the 'W' thing.
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Morello said in his thread that you are working on melee adcs. Any word on that? You say it's not your style to do the forum feedback thing, but any update would be nice.
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My thought is basically that a Melee ADCs should not be more reliant on autoattacks than their ranged counterparts - given the cost of an autoattack on a Melee ADC is much much higher than the cost of an autoattack on a Ranged ADC.
I guess the short form is: Melee ADCs should rely on both attacks and spells to carry.
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Oddly enough, I have exactly the right RP left to buy teemo on sale... 292
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1 Week Ago 08:17 PM
Damiya
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General Discussion
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