League of Legends Community
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

League of Legends Community (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/index.php)
-   General Discussion (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Help Riot improve matchmaking! Looking for examples of bad matchmaking (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1827767)

Pænda 02-16-2012 11:48 AM
Jax countered my vayne.

Lashrack 02-16-2012 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte (Post 21030315)
Yes, the traditional Elo system was designed for Chess and 1 on 1, so it definitely would not have worked in League's 5v5 setting. However, League's system is based on Elo--not an exact replica of Elo.
I am sorry, but I have to say your ranking system is flawed. In ranked teams I must say it works, but for solo qeue it is simply broken. If I am playing solo qeue, my Elo should reflect my own skill level, regardless of how good or bad my teammates are. If I played my best, went 10/2/5 as AD carrier and destroyed 3 turrets, why should I lose Elo because our jungler was horrible? Or why should said jungler gain Elo if the team manages to win a match that is pretty much a 4vs5?
Unless you're playing ranked teams, Elo gain/loss should be based on how well you played, regarless of the game outcome. It would encourage people to try their best no matter what. The current system take into consideration the game outcome(win/loss) and I think it is really not fair sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte (Post 21032998)
This is an interesting idea; however, what is to stop a team from stalling a game so they can pad their Team KDA and continue stomping for higher Elo gains? The other team should surrender; however, what if there is one or two players on the other team who refuse to surrender and choose to now troll their own team?
I really don't get why Reds say something like this when the community proposes a solution. You claim that the tribunal is a nearly flawless system( a red even said it was 100% accurate), yet you say that many possible solutions aren't viable because of trolls. Wouldn't this kind of thing be a death trap for trolls and toxic players who would get banned much faster?

Sylvr 02-16-2012 11:53 AM
The thing that concerns me the most about the matchmaking system is starting Elo Range (1200 +/-100). Frankly speaking, it's a Chaos Zone. Players who sink below this range and have to climb their way back up and through it will experience what I dub Elo Turbulence in which you may be placed with and against players who are completely new with Ranked who may not belong anywhere near this range. I daresay it's the range with the most potential for a truly random win or loss, based completely on luck.

Eventually, you will break free from this zone as the positive and negative chaotic factors balance out and the only variable left is your own skill level, but the sheer number of games potentially required for this to happen is pretty ridiculous.

There have been proposals and links to threads with potential solutions to this problem in this thread, such as Normal Elo factoring in to a seed for Ranked Elo, and I believe something like this would do more good than harm, and greatly help even out that Elo range, and alleviate a lot of the frustration that players have attributed to "Elo Hell".

Pænda 02-16-2012 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lashrack (Post 21057183)
I am sorry, but I have to say your ranking system is flawed. In ranked teams I must say it works, but for solo qeue it is simply broken. If I am playing solo qeue, my Elo should reflect my own skill level, regardless of how good or bad my teammates are. If I played my best, went 10/2/5 as AD carrier and destroyed 3 turrets, why should I lose Elo because our jungler was horrible? Or why should said jungler gain Elo if the team manages to win a match that is pretty much a 4vs5?
Unless you're playing ranked teams, Elo gain/loss should be based on how well you played, regarless of the game outcome. It would encourage people to try their best no matter what. The current system take into consideration the game outcome(win/loss) and I think it is really not fair sometimes.



I really don't get why Reds say something like this when the community proposes a solution. You claim that the tribunal is a nearly flawless system( a red even said it was 100% accurate), yet you say that many possible solutions aren't viable because of trolls. Wouldn't this kind of thing be a death trap for trolls and toxic players who would get banned much faster?
But my soraka is always average 0-50-100, I should not gain elo?

illundreal 02-16-2012 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lashrack (Post 21057183)
I am sorry, but I have to say your ranking system is flawed. In ranked teams I must say it works, but for solo qeue it is simply broken. If I am playing solo qeue, my Elo should reflect my own skill level, regardless of how good or bad my teammates are. If I played my best, went 10/2/5 as AD carrier and destroyed 3 turrets, why should I lose Elo because our jungler was horrible? Or why should said jungler gain Elo if the team manages to win a match that is pretty much a 4vs5?
Unless you're playing ranked teams, Elo gain/loss should be based on how well you played, regarless of the game outcome. It would encourage people to try their best no matter what. The current system take into consideration the game outcome(win/loss) and I think it is really not fair sometimes.
I agree with you that Elo doesn't work in this game because it currently doesn't weigh individual contribution. But you have to think about it logically, there is no great way of judging personal performance in this game. For instance lets say you're mid, and your bot lane and top lane are feeding like crazy. Now its team fight time and you basically can't do anything due to how much your team fed. You might go something like 2/6 which makes you still look bad even though you were 2/0 before team fights broke out.

illundreal 02-16-2012 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvr (Post 21057187)
The thing that concerns me the most about the matchmaking system is starting Elo Range (1200 +/-100). Frankly speaking, it's a Chaos Zone. Players who sink below this range and have to climb their way back up and through it will experience what I dub Elo Turbulence in which you may be placed with and against players who are completely new with Ranked who may not belong anywhere near this range. I daresay it's the range with the most potential for a truly random win or loss, based completely on luck.
I think this is a very real problem for people who's true elo is between 1100 and 1300. They are constantly getting new ranked players who are moving to their own true elos and basically screws up every game. If you have a 1900 true elo player in a 1200 match that could very well determine the outcome, same if you have a 900 true elo player.

meanwhile the person who should be playing 1200 players is stuck playing all of these kinds of new ranked players. lets say for example every new player suddenly started at 2200 elo. I'm pretty sure you'd hear some pros complaining real fast about how they keep getting stuck with absolute noobs on their team.

Currently only the lowest denominator of elo and the highest denominator of elo are playing games against people they deserve to be playing against.

Apocalypsicl 02-16-2012 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte (Post 21030608)
My concern is if players know that Elo points are distributed onto AFK/leavers, that a portion of players will rage and be extremely toxic with the intention of making someone quit to take the brunt of the Elo loss.
I don't agree with this for 2 reasons:

1. You supposedly already have a mechanism to deal with ragers and otherwise "toxic" folk. If the the banning system isn't going to work then, that probably means it's not working now. I think you should add "probations" to the game, but that's another topic.

2. There is an ignore button, and it's very easy to press.

kidco 02-16-2012 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illundreal (Post 21057379)
I agree with you that Elo doesn't work in this game because it currently doesn't weigh individual contribution. But you have to think about it logically, there is no great way of judging personal performance in this game. For instance lets say you're mid, and your bot lane and top lane are feeding like crazy. Now its team fight time and you basically can't do anything due to how much your team fed. You might go something like 2/6 which makes you still look bad even though you were 2/0 before team fights broke out.
It's not possible for it to weigh individual contribution. Then no one will want to do support or work as a team. everyone would just farm or try to get kills all game or if you're rewarded for warding, spam wards everywhere. It's just not possible

Elo is broken and there's no way to fix it ok?

dzell 02-16-2012 12:02 PM
@Lyte - Thank you for looking into this and trying to improve it... easily the biggest source of frustration in the game for me and many others.

illundreal 02-16-2012 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidco (Post 21057499)
It's not possible for it to weigh individual contribution. Then no one will want to do support or work as a team. everyone would just farm or try to get kills all game or if you're rewarded for warding, spam wards everywhere. It's just not possible

Elo is broken and there's no way to fix it ok?
So you agree with everything I said? What exactly was your point. I think you need to re-read what I wrote.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:57 PM.
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page


(c) 2008 Riot Games Inc