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"If you nerf Irelia again she's going to be worthless and non-viable"

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Sylari ?? Senior Member
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07-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWolf77 View Post
Wow. It's like none of you play against Irelia. She needs nerfs: her lane sustainability, ability to build very tanky while still dealing tons of damage, and her near inability to be cc'ed, make her way too strong. Go try laning against a good Irelia as anybody who isn't a super tanky dps also. You're going to lose. Even if you're a super tanky dps, you might lose.
She's a good champion, but overpowered? That's very debatable.

Quote:
Also, Guinsoo/Morello/others can't have open discussions because most you are viciously defending champions that are obviously too strong. Why post anything on here when you guys are too myopic to see that one particular champion is too powerful?
It's clearly not "obvious" that she's too powerful given the clearly large amount contention over the topic, and being forced to resort to insults doesn't strengthen your position at all...

 
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fearie ?? Senior Member
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07-07-2011

anyone who thinks Irelia is balanced is blind.

 
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GelBanana ?? Junior Member
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07-07-2011

Honest question. Why are we nerfing Irelia when Annie can kill everyone in a 1v4?

 
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Sylari ?? Senior Member
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07-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by fearie View Post
anyone who thinks Irelia is balanced is blind.
The fact that I can read this post to respond to it clearly shows my eyesight is intact =P

 
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FerralOne ?? Senior Member
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07-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Rope of Sand View Post
No no, this is League of Legends. Where carries aren't supposed to survive killing 1 - 2 people out of a possible 4 or 5 and getting out alive.

Heaven forbid carries do their job to a lesser degree than their HoN/DotA counterparts who can solo entire teams if farmed enough.
Uhhh...Yeaaaahhh. See that part I highlighted. I said 3, not 4-5. walking into 5 champions should get you killed (If not fed). But a well farmed carry with an average amount of kills with full health should be able to charge in to 3 champs (Assuming one isn't their carry), get at least one person, and have a shot of making it out safely (Not always the case, E.G. Tower dive early game tryndamere; Already weakened carry; ect.)

 
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The Pisces Guy ?? Senior Member
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07-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
And you guys wonder why we don't post here?

All I did was say that it made me sad that she can do this. There are so many overreactions and hyperbole here it's not even funny.

Good day.
For someone in your position though there was no reason to comment something like that with no context. Let's see, just about every champion in this game in some circumstances can go in kill 2 to 3 people and get out alive.

When I read it I imagined a pre-teen raging at their screen because they just got owned by an "op" champion. It honestly seems like you have a vendetta against her.

 
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Guinsoo Guinsoo's Avatar ?? Game Designer
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2 of 5 Riot Posts
07-07-2011

Alright, I've done some thinking and here's what I've come up with.

I clearly did not handle this well on Twitter, and I apologize for that. As far as the Tweet? I was not upset in the least; she was on my team and I wasn't anywhere near the fight. In fact I did dragon while she basically killed their team. It is difficult to describe the situation in 140 characters or whatever Twitter allows; it was pretty ridiculous. I thought I did a good job of showing that I was not upset but more surprised/sad at the manuever, but clearly I underestimated how much it would be analyzed and I will try to be more careful in the future.

However certain issues do bother me about Irelia which are more core to her kit than numerical in nature. Mostly, the issue boils down to her being a tank assassin carry, which is a role that I do not believe should exist in general. I don't so much feel like she's overpowered, as that she's problematic. Few champions have as robust a kit as she does.

She has greater sustain levels than most champions, between her W passive and R heal.

She has immense resistance to CC, greater than most champions, between her passive and Q.

She has great burst damage between her abilities and Trinity Force (I do believe some of this issue comes from TF being a little too strong most likely, or at least the Sheen proc portion of it).

She has a hard disable on E, though not 100% reliable. The slow is also pretty good though.

None of these are necessarily problematic in and of themselves but in combination you end up with a highly-CC resistant tank with a reliable jump mechanism and high burst damage that can sustain themselves, especially nasty for carries but tough for anyone to do anything about. This is simply a very difficult champion to balance for because of the lack of counterplay on the receiving end, in all phases of the game. Certain issues like ease of farming under a turret make this worse, for sure.

I actually like Irelia quite a bit; she's one of my favorite champions. Fighters/tanky DPS in general are my favorite class to play, so I don't feel like I in particular, nor we as a group, have been biased against them. Here are the changes coming for Irelia:

Bladesurge mana cost changed to 60/65/70/75/80 from 70.

This change is to spread out the mana cost a bit. It doesn't feel good at 1, and it is too cheap at 5. Overall a pretty minor adjustment.

Transcendent Blades damage reduced to 80/120/160 from 85/135/185

People bag on her ultimate for dealing little damage, but it is actually one of the most damaging ultimates in the game. 360-740 base damage by rank, 2.4 bonus AD scaling and 2.0 AP scaling, additively. Yes this is assuming you hit all 4 shots, but it's a super fast missile and it's AoE - it's not particularly tough to hit at least one specific target with all 4 shots. Only Absolute Zero and Death Lotus have this type of large base damage plus scaling, and both are much easier to disrupt. The cooldown on Transcendent Blades is also pretty low as far as ultimates go, and it heals you too.

This change partially is aimed at encouraging her to buy a little more damage gear. Like other tradeoffs for fighter types, we wanted to maintain high scaling with lower base damage to allow for more counterplay against her (if she doesn't get terribly farmed, she'll have to choose more between damage and tankiness) and to allow her to carry hard (with good scaling). It's also just to bring it down to the damage level of comparable ultimates.

I think it's also worth noting that Jarvan, Gangplank, and Rumble are also receiving comparable nerfs (in terms of 'strength'). Hopefully this will both shed more information into what's going on and why we are choosing to make the (not terribly large) adjustment we are.

 
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Infinity Power ?? Senior Member
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07-07-2011

Community: "An Irelia killed me, She is OP, Nerf Her NAO"

Guinsoo: "Okay, we will give her the Eve Treatment."

Community: "YAYAYA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Irelia: "I am unviable now, I will be joining Twitch, Eve, and Panth because of the nerfs Weeks After Weeks... "

 
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FoldaFolda ?? Senior Member
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07-07-2011

God. The people defending irelia and ****ting on anything else in this thread are such ****heads.

 
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Mikori ?? Senior Member
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07-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
And you guys wonder why we don't post here?

All I did was say that it made me sad that she can do this. There are so many overreactions and hyperbole here it's not even funny.

Good day.
QQ. Mommy, people are mean to me!