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@Zileas, Innocent People being Banned

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Veilius ?? Senior Member
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11-28-2011

So my name is Veilius, and I've been banned due to the tribunal once before. I had extensive discussions with support saying how rage in my games is only caused by troll-like behavior in matches. I know this of myself to be true, I go into every game with every player having a fresh start, even if he trolled me in previous games. I try hard not to lose my cool when people are playing badly and always try to be encouraging (I know this isn't the case all the time, but it's my aim).

So why am I telling you this? Well it's because it points out a gaping hole in the tribunal philosophy. One thing the Tribunal and it's users fail to understand, is trolls make people angry. They make people REALLY angry, they make them want to retaliate against them, they make them not want to play the game anymore. When I first got my ban, I said that I only ever rage when people troll me, because it makes me very angry. I want to play the game, I want to shoot to excel and I want to know people are doing the same if they are queuing ranked. As a result of my ban never being lifted, and every support person just responding with some completely unrelated fluffy lawyer-like answer that really didn't help anyone at all ( i found it insulting to my intelligence to be honest), I made an effort to NEVER say ANYTHING negative or anything against the summoners code per-se, UNLESS another player ignored this code, and chose to treat me like a giant pile of dirt. I think it is 100% my right that if another player refuses to abide by the summoners code, that I should not have to show him that level of respect in return.

If I join champ select, and I have one person TELLING me the champion I have to pick, TELLING me the lane I have to go in (even though the whole team disagrees) and then continues to cuss at me and call me a piece of sh!t b/c I won't follow their Nazi orders why should I have to treat them with respect? Now I know what you're going to say, IGNORE THEM. Well lets think about this, what is the #1 complaint people have with foreign players? They can't communicate. When you ignore people, you can't communicate. Trollness aside, ignoring someone can greatly reduce your ability to win, and THAT is where the disconnect occurs.

I know I need to be more controlled, and try not to retaliate, I know. HOWEVER, human brains are NOT wired like this, as anger goes up, fear goes down. As trolls piss people off, their fear of the repercussions of any profanity or otherwise becomes less significant. It is a biological fact, you can sit here all day and talk about how we should act, but it's like trying to make humans abstinent. We are PROGRAMMED TO WANT TO HAVE ***. If someone in the game is talking to a player like they are their slave in war, and that player chooses to afk because they REFUSE to play with someone who is treating them like theyre in a concentration camp, POWER TO THEM. They should be commended for their refusal to co-operate with people who think they are more important than everyone else. This kind of behavior should be ENCOURAGED, because bans don't scare trolls away. Whenever you say theyre going to get banned from reports they all say the same thing: Lol idc, make new acc trollololol. When people continually troll games, and their whole team afk's/leaves them high and dry because they are being ******bags will stop them from trolling A LOT FASTER when theyre games are constantly being ruined by their behavior.

TL;DR: What's my point? I got another warning in my e-mail today, and I know for a fact that in my ranked games the only thing that pisses me off enough to forget the summoner code, is someone refusing to abide by it and treating me like dirt. I'm amazed at the things people will say to someone they've never seen play yet. THE FAILURE OF THE TRIBUNAL IS THE FAILURE TO RECOGNIZE THE SOURCE OF THE TROLL AND ELIMINATE IT, RATHER THAN ANY AND ALL VIOLATIONS.

I urge you all to revisit how exactly you are sifting through people in the tribunal, because I go into every ranked game pedal to the metal ready to try to slay everything. I want everyone to have fun, I want everyone to be happy with what they play, and I want everyone to work together in harmony. Every time. Why? Because I win almost every time under those circumstances. PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY WITH PEOPLE WHO DO THE THINGS I JUST SAID IN THIS PARAGRAPH. Yet, here I am, sitting with a warning in my e-mail, probably getting a ban in the next few days, even though I am literally never going to speak in chat again unless its mia calls, at least, until I can be sure that everything I say or do will be held against me in the court of law, because I refuse to be treated like a dog for the slaughter in china.

 
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SimplyAlive ?? Senior Member
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11-28-2011

I will judge cases where people are being taunted somewhat more lenient, but I will not pardon purely because of it.

Just one question:
If it is programmed in each and everyone of us to retaliate when being taunted, how come that the huge majority of players do not even receive a warning?

Your behaviour, your responsibility. Yes, you may have been taunted, but ignore the insults and continue to try to make it work. If they don't listen, you can always ultimately ignore them.
People behaving bad is in no way a justification of bad behaviour of your own.

Also, you lost some sympathy when you mentioned 'nazi orders'. Something tells me you are not Mister Sunshine in your games without being taunted. This may or may not be right, of course.

Just refrain from lowering yourself to the level of the people you so despise. Trolls are out there for the reactions people will give them. Don't give them the satisfaction!

Good luck in the future. I may respond later if you have any remaining questions/criticism on my view. (Which is very likely. Our opinions are pretty far apart, but you actually made a post worth responding to, albeit somewhat...tactless at some points)

 
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Veilius ?? Senior Member
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11-28-2011

My answer to your question is you tell me. Why does hotshotGG talk **** to people in his games on his stream live every day and not get a warning? There's a recording of Elementz vs Doublelift on own3d and he's sitting there telling someone to shut up over and over and over, where's his warning? It's a question I can't answer.

Your argument in your post is already covered in my thread. Yes I can ultimately ignore them, but it blocks off communication with that player. The point im making is that trolls do not fear bans, they will just make a new acc. The point I'm making is that if you walk into a bank, and a teller starts talking to you like they are some kind of superior being to you, most people aren't going to just "ignore" their apparent supremacy and will more than likely respond by telling them not to speak to them that way, or referring them to a manager for their behavior. Why? Because why should you have to be spoken to by someone like that, and sit there and take it.

MY POINT: The tribunal is encouraging people to ignore the fact that people are treating them like garbage, which is essentially tolerating that kind of behavior. Understand that if someone trolls 5 games in a row, and gets banned, those 5 games are ruined by his troll. Then he makes a new acc, trolls 5 more games during his ban, and ruins those games. Where is the success? If every time he joins a game a trolls, and the rest of his team afk's because hes treating everyone like ****, he will adjust his behavior A LOT faster than getting banned, because every time he starts that ****, he's 1v5.

@Nazi Orders: I am referring to the proverbial last pick who is sitting thre saying VEIL PLAY SUPPORT. THATS NOT SUPPORT NOOB. WOW U ARE SUPPORT. WOW. OMFG. GG WE LOSE. GO BOT NOOB. YOURE BOT NOT MID IM MID NOOB GO BOT. What gives this person the right to tell me who to pick, and which lane to play in. I understand the meta game, I understand communication. If said person would like to have a humane conversation as to which champs we are going to play and work it out in a communal and compromising manner, I would be more than happy to adjust my potential choice for them (this is something that I state in game on MANY occasions, but I guess tribunal ignores these kinds of things), but if they are going to bark orders like they own me and I am only there to serve and facilitate them wanting to solo mid ap carry every game because they are selfish, they are acting like a friggin nazi and I am not going to follow their order. Clear that up a bit?

 
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YogurtBreath ?? Junior Member
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11-28-2011

Primadonna... Punish.... Next!

 
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Zileas Zileas's Avatar ?? VP of Game Design
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1 of 2 Riot Posts
11-28-2011

Most people manage this fine, and only a small % of our players end up in the tribunal.

If you have trouble playing with random people on the internet, you should premake more to avoid this problem. We do ban some trolls, but I'm guessing some of the people you think are trolling are either assertive or not as good at the game as you.

 
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Veilius ?? Senior Member
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11-28-2011

Well that's about the response I got from the tribunal support team.

"I read your reply, here's an answer that's barely relevant and doesn't really answer any of your questions or concerns. Feel better?"

I'm not having trouble playing with random people on the internet. I like the whole idea of playing with new people every game, some people have bad games and I can deal with that. My question is why are you banning people for responding to being treated like ****? When people treat you like crab IRL do you just laugh and put them on ignore? I feel incredibly helpless in this whole situation. I am not a person to stand for being treated like dirt. If you think that I'm mistaking barking orders for being assertive YOU are mistaken. I LIKE assertiveness, I WANT people to have direction. Cussing at somebody because YOU didn't pick the champ THEY want you to play is NOT being assertive, it's being a ****head.

It's a little discouraging that after all I've written and how clear I've tried to make my point, I get a response that says "I'm guessing you think..."

This is something that has been on my mind and I've been thinking about after getting banned. The number of trolls hasn't changed at all since the tribunal, and if anything has gotten worse. I am guessing you think it's making a difference, but I feel like I'm getting warned/banned for wanting to be treated like a human. I wish you could see the games I have sat and explained to a troll calmly and clearly how I will not respond co-cooperatively to someone who speaks to me with cusses and noob this and that because they don't approve of how I am playing the game, but no the tribunal focuses on all the bad games, and doesn't show the positive effect a player has on the community, does it? If someone rages at a troll one game, then motivationally carries a team the next game, should he be banned? I don't think so.

 
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Zileas Zileas's Avatar ?? VP of Game Design
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2 of 2 Riot Posts
11-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veilius View Post
Well that's about the response I got from the tribunal support team.

"I read your reply, here's an answer that's barely relevant and doesn't really answer any of your questions or concerns. Feel better?"

I'm not having trouble playing with random people on the internet. I like the whole idea of playing with new people every game, some people have bad games and I can deal with that. My question is why are you banning people for responding to being treated like ****? When people treat you like crab IRL do you just laugh and put them on ignore? I feel incredibly helpless in this whole situation. I am not a person to stand for being treated like dirt. If you think that I'm mistaking barking orders for being assertive YOU are mistaken. I LIKE assertiveness, I WANT people to have direction. Cussing at somebody because YOU didn't pick the champ THEY want you to play is NOT being assertive, it's being a ****head.
Our view is that neither your behavior nor their behavior is acceptable. So, we try to ban both in hope that both will chill out and stop doing it. They shouldn't be trolling, you shouldn't be raging.

 
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con4n ?? Senior Member
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11-28-2011

"No man, you can't defend yourself, and everything you write can and will be used against you here"

You know its sad but true...

 
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Veilius ?? Senior Member
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11-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Our view is that neither your behavior nor their behavior is acceptable. So, we try to ban both in hope that both will chill out and stop doing it. They shouldn't be trolling, you shouldn't be raging.
I think what the vast majority of the player base is trying to get at is that this concept makes absolutely no sense, and solves nothing. The troll problem hasn't been solved, you yourself have even had to try to encourage people to go to the Tribunal on the general discussion because no one believes in the system.

Punishing people for becoming flustered at someone who is intentionally trying to ruin a game is like jailing someone for shooting someone who was stabbing you repeatedly with a knife. Decisions decisions, get stabbed to death and die, or shoot him in the face, go to jail, and essentially die. No matter the outcome, everyone dies, murder rate doubles. Call it an extreme comparison, but in the context of League of Legends, it is quite a nonsensical comparison IMO, unless we're playing a different game. Maybe you haven't spent enough time in 1000-1300 bracket?

 
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Torenia ?? Senior Member
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11-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veilius View Post
like jailing someone for shooting someone who was stabbing you repeatedly with a knife.
That's a terrible comparison. This is not a life or death situation. You have a choice to ignore them and just report them after the game. I often get paired with the same trolls many times even when I report them and I continue to report them each day I see them when they act the way they do without myself losing my cool. You are NO better than them if you act as they do.

And so far, some those trolls, have disappeared completely. Proof being one of the people I reported DID end up on one of my tribunal cases (not sure why or how but it did lol) but did not include my own report.

The system works.