Originally Posted by 2pudge1cup
Good post OP.
Pheonix has a faster initial clear time that no one doubts but Tiger is better in later stages of the game. He can gank better, dragon better, baron way better, team fight better, etc.
People in this game still have an old jungle mindset which is why I see a lot of fail junglers all the time. Or they have a new jungle minset which is warped like you need to be afk farming the jungle.
Though my build with runes/masteries is different from yours if you have success with it go nuts. I like 19-11-0 as a 'safe' jungling with very good damage. I think I don't have nearly the armor pen that you have but I have MS and attack speed quints. They really are a bit irrelevent as long as you don't go overboard on armor pen in the new jungle since mobs have **** for armor. Boots + 3 potions easily gives you the sustain and ganking capabilities you'll need.
All I know is that my clear time til level 4 for pheonix was 3:50 and tiger was 4:00. But as stated previously Tiger has things that pheonix just doesn't. The turtle stance/tiger cycling is one of them.
Thank you, and also I like how you said people have the "old jungle mindset". Thats what I am trying to get at. With the new jungles, farming you jungle wont cut it. You need to have good ganking abilities and still have a good jungle time. What alot of people look for in jungling is ONE thing. And that is clear times, how fast they can clear the jungle. Sure thats great and all but I don't think riot isn't aware of the fact that different champions have different jungle times. In order to counteract this the faster ones tend to be on the "weaker side". For example P.Udyr clears it fast but has a weaker ganking ability then Tiger. Tiger is a bit slower but has a stronger lane ganking. So now whats the differnce in jungle time, according to you its about 10 seconds. If I give up 10 seconds(early game), I have a higher success rate for ganking. Now don't think of this as the old jungle but in the jungle new jungle mindset.
edit: also I did think about using MS Quints instead of the Armor Pen but like I said I haven't had the time for it.