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Remove "Score" From Dominion

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TheFunderstorm ?? Senior Member
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12-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
personally i like to keep scoring systems simple and transparent. speaking very generally, i would prefer thresholds and flat, binary bonuses over variable and scaling bonuses. in other words, i would rather add a 'lengthy capture' bonus than make the current capture bonus more complicated (hypothetically speaking).

for example:
{simple}
point captured: +30
point man: +15 (if personal channel time for capture exceeds the channel time of teammates)
lengthy capture: +15 (if personal channel time for capture exceeds a static value)

{complex}
point captured: min +30, max +60 (based on contribution and capture time)

the simple example works to achieve the same goals as the complex example, but without as many unknowns to the player. a new player wouldn't necessarily know why they got 34 points in one case and 57 in another. in the simple example, they would learn (relatively) quickly that capturing is important, but aiding to capture is less valuable when most of the work is already done and not much time would be shaved off with their assistance. the tradeoff is that the simple version is less accurate but i think it's a worthwhile trade if it means that scoring will achieve more than being a measurement of contribution.
A system that gives you more points the longer you capture isn't too difficult:

base points + bonus points * (time captured * modifer)

Thus the longer you help the more points you get, thats pretty easy to figure out.

Another issue that isn't addressed is how poor performance by the "bot lane" player can yield extremely high scores. Ex. He constantly loses bot tower over and over but keeps managing to take it back each time. He will have a high score and a high capture rate leading him to believe he did well when in fact he is probably the reason for the loss of the game.


Honestly the biggest thing I am worried about is when ranked dominion comes around if "Score" is still used as it is today, it will be a huge deterrent to good gameplay.

 
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ricklessabandon ricklessabandon's Avatar ?? qa analyst
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3 of 4 Riot Posts
12-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFunderstorm View Post
A system that gives you more points the longer you capture isn't too difficult
if duration were the only factor, sure it's less complicated. the system that i was commenting on had multiple factors. also, the 'difficulty' i care about is on the receiving end--how easy is it to understand what's happening, and how easy is it to learn from that? combining two bonuses into one (e.g., capture bonus base + capture time bonus), the bonus automatically becomes less transparent. that's a direction in which i would be quite hesitant to head without gaining significant value out of the exchange.

 
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Pawstruck ?? Senior Member
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12-10-2011

My problem with personal score versus kdr is that it's completely arbitrary. Even if you work out a system that many people think reflects their accomplishments in game, the system itself will still be arbitrary.

In essence, what you've done is say "We're going to pay you $20 for this job. Wait, you think you should get more? Alright, $25. We're still working on the system, so keep giving us feedback. $30? ...Wait, what do you mean we're playing Monopoly?"

IMHO get rid of the personal score for kdr, if you're going to show anything. Personally the only stock I think people should take in a team game is "Did we win or lose, and how could I have better contributed?" (No matter how pro or fail they are.)

 
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Xerexsus ?? Senior Member
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12-10-2011

The push war on bot is for sure undervalued. I went 1/0/1 today with Singed and never lost my point yet only capped their's once and ended up dead last by a wide margin. They had to consistently send 2 people to deal with me which enabled the rest of my team to steamroll the rest of them.

I almost always go bot and while I know that my contributions are important my score doesn't really reflect it. Scaling point defense I think would go a way towards really recognizing it; as in you get more points for defense the longer it goes without it being neutralized.

 
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Fulgr1m ?? Senior Member
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12-10-2011

I feel like no matter how you spin it, people are still going to abuse the score system and place priority over it than actually winning when it comes to solo queue, same applies to the K/D ratio in Summoners Rift. In a competitive scene though I would say that the score would be far more accurate because the team would be focusing purely on the win and whoever legitimately did the best would end up with the best score.

Not trying to blow my own horn but on more than one occasion I was the person that won our team the game by doing the right actions necessary to win and have gotten the #1 spot. Of course there have been times where the exact opposite was true, but in the end when it comes to solo queue you either win or you lose. And there's no point crying about it you just move on to the next game.

 
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Calys Teneb ?? Senior Member
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12-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerexsus View Post
The push war on bot is for sure undervalued. I went 1/0/1 today with Singed and never lost my point yet only capped their's once and ended up dead last by a wide margin. They had to consistently send 2 people to deal with me which enabled the rest of my team to steamroll the rest of them.

I almost always go bot and while I know that my contributions are important my score doesn't really reflect it. Scaling point defense I think would go a way towards really recognizing it; as in you get more points for defense the longer it goes without it being neutralized.
This is more of you being support with a disruption tank. You'd have higher score from defending and attacking points where the action is, instead of hanging at a point where they may send two at you but the target isn't a high priority, unlike Windmill where's there's a battle constantly for control.

 
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BrianKB ?? Member
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12-10-2011

Should lengthy captures even be rewarded? It seems like a capture that goes really quickly because you carefully pushed a large minion wave wouldn't get recognized even though that takes more investment.

 
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deathcoilfeardot ?? Senior Member
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12-10-2011

The score system is the best thing about Dominion. It may not be perfect, but it's a vastly better idea than KDAR ever was. Tweaking will only make it better.

 
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agherwyijogkj ?? Senior Member
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12-10-2011

people play dominion?

 
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TheFunderstorm ?? Senior Member
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12-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
if duration were the only factor, sure it's less complicated. the system that i was commenting on had multiple factors. also, the 'difficulty' i care about is on the receiving end--how easy is it to understand what's happening, and how easy is it to learn from that? combining two bonuses into one (e.g., capture bonus base + capture time bonus), the bonus automatically becomes less transparent. that's a direction in which i would be quite hesitant to head without gaining significant value out of the exchange.
I'm sorry I was unclear, I meant for the players. I don't think it would be too hard for the one of the messages at the beginning to say "You earn more points the longer you spend capturing a point." Then players would see they get more points if they starting capturing it from the beginning rather than at the very end.

Better yet, show them constantly get small amounts of points as they capture. So the numbers could appear about their heads like the green hp numbers do when Mundo ults. I think this could be a great visual that would make sense for newer players.