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Why I dislike Jax's remake, and yet not because it's a "nerf".

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Opreich ?? Senior Member
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01-11-2012

When you have a 70 AD/AP steroid I don't think you need to worry that much.

 
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Phreak Phreak's Avatar ?? Shoutcaster
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2 of 2 Riot Posts
01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opreich View Post
When you have a 70 AD/AP steroid I don't think you need to worry that much.
It scales with your AP/AD. It's not 70 base.

 
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krflol ?? Senior Member
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01-11-2012

i stopped reading at TOTAL SPECULATION

cause thats all there is to it.

 
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Sessamo ?? Senior Member
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01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MvP Tincho View Post
Even when Jax built 3k+ in the past, he could still be bursted and handled well if you knew how..

Champions like tryn could build full glasscannon, get on your face for a full 5 seconds and laugh at you while they got a triple and jumped over a wall (without even needing wards AND doing aoe dmg while escaping).

Problem is? Tryn still does that.
Trynd's participation in a fight is quite often limited to strictly the 5 seconds his ult gives him.
Again, I'm sorry if you were really attached to his old passive, but it kept him from ever being balanced.
You ended the game with the exact same defensive stats as any other tanky dps, except you wildly out damaged any of them because your itemized for pure offense. Ending up with more HP then a champion with Warmogs without actually having to build the warmogs is insane.
The only champion who comes even close to that is Vladimir, who pays for it with his spells costing 20% and 15% of his current hp.

 
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Opreich ?? Senior Member
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01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
It scales with your AP/AD. It's not 70 base.
Well that is interesting.

But there is no denying that these two points
Quote:
2b. Your sustained itemless DPS is a bit higher, so zero-gold Jax (or pure tank Jax) is stronger than before, both from base ability damage and from base stat increases.

2c. Building some mix of both damage and durability, which is the build I think is most likely (See: Lee Sin, Nocturne, Gangplank) will put you almost exactly where you were before in both damage and durability.
Scream Metagolem.

 
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Crusalis ?? Senior Member
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01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Want to bring up something quick for the metagolem arguments.

While certainly he does have some AD scaling, the GP/LeeSin/Noctune scaling is all AD. I mean, yeah ok there are technically AP ratios, but let's be real here.

AP is a crucial part of Jax's scaling. Atmogs, while technically usable (and with free attack speed really isn't that bad) is not the optimal build.
So....

He'll be even worse

That's what you're saying

Either build damage and die or build defense and do nothing

 
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Superbone1 ?? Senior Member
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01-11-2012

Yup, that's my biggest beef with the rework. He is no longer a hybrid champ. You can see it just by looking at Phreak's items; I don't even think I saw a Rageblade or Gunblade built in the spotlight. It doesn't help that Gunblade is pretty bad now, but it's mostly because now Jax has to itemize for more defense and AP also does not benefit him nearly as much.

EDIT: Oh, and why do we need yet another jungler? He isn't AoE so he will still basically never be top tier because Lee Sin will almost always outdo him in gank potential and utility. He could have been interesting in top lane, but his reworked kit is probably even worse for that now. Jax used to be a counterpick to autoattack heavy teams, now he's just a boring metagolem tanky dps with basically no originality.

 
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lceCar ?? Senior Member
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01-11-2012

+1, I hope his item builds are still as flexible.

 
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Mr Threepwood ?? Senior Member
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01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Want to bring up something quick for the metagolem arguments.

While certainly he does have some AD scaling, the GP/LeeSin/Noctune scaling is all AD. I mean, yeah ok there are technically AP ratios, but let's be real here.

AP is a crucial part of Jax's scaling. Atmogs, while technically usable (and with free attack speed really isn't that bad) is not the optimal build.
Here's the problem. He has ONLY AP ratios. So either, those AP ratios are enough to make him a mage, and he builds AP for burst, perhaps with some bonus AS in there (probably not), or he needs his auto attacks and completely ignores AP. Problem with hybrid is that he gets NO benefit out of it now. He was the last champion that could arguably go hybrid, now there are none. W is just another auto attack with some bonus AP scaling. Is it as good as just adding flat AD? I don't know, can't see the numbers. AP scaling can't crit though, so I doubt it. Same with his ulty. His E has a long CD, but it's AoE. What's the ratio? Might be ok. Leapstrike, same question.

Passive- Benefits LARGELY from AD/Crit. Ult adds poor AP scaling as well.
Q- Benefits only from AP, but how much?
W- Almost gaurenteed better from AD scaling.
E- Only AP, but how much?
R- Extra magic damage FAR exceeded on every third hit by a 1:1 AD ratio, I gaurentee it. Bonus AD benefits from crit chance and more AS.

My guess would be a total of 1.4 AP ratio from Q/E combined. Is that worth getting AP for, or is some decent crit/AS/AD items gonna blow that out of the water after the third attack?

With his AS passive and AD ulty going for crit/lifesteal and tank might be the way to go. Atmas/Executioners?(I wish this item's active wasn't so sad)/Frozen Mallet/Wits End?/LW or Starks?

 
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Fierach ?? Senior Member
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01-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Want to bring up something quick for the metagolem arguments.

While certainly he does have some AD scaling, the GP/LeeSin/Noctune scaling is all AD. I mean, yeah ok there are technically AP ratios, but let's be real here.

AP is a crucial part of Jax's scaling. Atmogs, while technically usable (and with free attack speed really isn't that bad) is not the optimal build.
Master Yi has 2 skills that scale off AP. His E does not scale at all.

Why is AD still the optimal build for Yi?