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Sivir beats vayne in lane and teamfights

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Schell Shock ?? Senior Member
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01-16-2012

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Originally Posted by TylerJones View Post
people don't understand the importance of an early game
ALSO the difference between a good AD and a great AD is those who capitalize on an advantage early game.

 
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Icebender ?? Senior Member
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01-16-2012

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Originally Posted by Schell Shock View Post
Being a high level player means you use your skills in a situation which garuntees the other AD carry takes more damage than you. This is called "trading". Sivir is by far the best at trading if you know how to play her.
Well then now your argument is focused not about the laning phase, but about trading damage, which I can see, but picture this. If your claim were to be about farming during the laning phase, you go ahead and farm as vayne. Sivir farms as well and we're avoiding trading damage for now, but then one of you guys starts to become aggressive. Now fighting against sivir, you would know that in your situation, if you were to be the first to be aggressive, you would lose at trading damage for she can boomerang you at a close distance with a less percentage of a chance for you to dodge that. But, if sivir was to engage first in that situation, your role in that fight is to avoid as much damage as possible. Thus you use your tumble at the moment in which you can guess when she's going to throw her boomerang, or if you have fast reaction, do it right when she has the throwing animation. Either way, there are ways to avoid her boomerang if you play smartly. Obviously that is why her Sivir's Q is considered a 'skillshot.' I'm not arguing that Vayne > Sivir, I'm just saying that you can't really compare the two in a one sided situation that Sivir will most likely win during the laning phase (= farming phase). It all depends on the player. Sivir can produce the higher output of damage, but that is if you let her to do that much on you and back to what you've just said, it all depends on the "level" of the player. There are those who know how to play against her.

 
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Tekshi ?? Senior Member
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01-16-2012

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Originally Posted by Schell Shock View Post
So you can accurately judge the power of a champion by watching people you do not know play her. /sarcasm

I am merely stating that you did not make a case why she isn't the best. Who's better and why? And what experience can back that reason up?
I can accurately judge the usefulness of a champion in a game.

There is no absolute omg "best" ranged ad in the game that auto wins the lane or is the best pick for every team.

I like Corkis for example. High mobility, huge AoE burst damage, easy to push with R. A lot more harass and dps output than Sivir assuming both lands all of their skill shots (which Corki's is a lot easier to hit with)

Sivir is fine if your team is already ahead / winning the game, but she isn't the type of champion from what i've seen to be able to turn around entire games.

 
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bobert523 ?? Junior Member
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01-16-2012

nooo. i just picked up sivir and i was gonna use her to climb to gold, but apparently everyone knows she's op D:

 
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Phreak Phreak's Avatar ?? Shoutcaster
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1 of 1 Riot Posts
01-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schell Shock View Post
Some people believe that the game balancers (Classick, Milkcow, Statikk) all play at a high level so they are fair to high level play.

Yet I have only seen one of them in the past 6 months in high elo solo queue.
We don't balance the game around solo queue. Our high-level balance goal is around tournament play, which is an area where Classick, Roku, and I have quite a bit of experience. In turn, I'd like to ask you for your tournament credentials, sir.

We'll be watching IEM Kiev very closely. I believe the tournament will be played on the Ahri/Viktor patch, so it will be before any of these buffs and nerfs from this update. I trust we'll react accordingly. Personally, I expect Sivir nerfs in general. I feel she's a "top 3" ranged AD. However, I think people on the forums and solo queue are just underrating a lot of the other choices.

 
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Schell Shock ?? Senior Member
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01-16-2012

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Originally Posted by Icebender View Post
Well then now your argument is focused not about the laning phase, but about trading damage, which I can see, but picture this. If your claim were to be about farming during the laning phase, you go ahead and farm as vayne. Sivir farms as well and we're avoiding trading damage for now, but then one of you guys starts to become aggressive. Now fighting against sivir, you would know that in your situation, if you were to be the first to be aggressive, you would lose at trading damage for she can boomerang you at a close distance with a less percentage of a chance for you to dodge that. But, if sivir was to engage first in that situation, your role in that fight is to avoid as much damage as possible. Thus you use your tumble at the moment in which you can guess when she's going to throw her boomerang, or if you have fast reaction, do it right when she has the throwing animation. Either way, there are ways to avoid her boomerang if you play smartly. Obviously that is why her Sivir's Q is considered a 'skillshot.' I'm not arguing that Vayne > Sivir, I'm just saying that you can't really compare the two in a one sided situation that Sivir will most likely win during the laning phase (= farming phase). It all depends on the player. Sivir can produce the higher output of damage, but that is if you let her to do that much on you.
No need to create scenarios. Everyone knows that skillshot oriented champions will have higher damage output than non skillshot champions if they make those skillshots. Good players will make those skillshots.

 
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Icebender ?? Senior Member
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01-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schell Shock View Post
No need to create scenarios. Everyone knows that skillshot oriented champions will have higher damage output than non skillshot champions if they make those skillshots. Good players will make those skillshots.
And Good players know how to dodge those skillshots. Your argument is flawed.

 
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Tekshi ?? Senior Member
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01-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
We don't balance the game around solo queue. Our high-level balance goal is around tournament play, which is an area where Classick, Roku, and I have quite a bit of experience. In turn, I'd like to ask you for your tournament credentials, sir.
**** I could feel the heat from here from that burn.

 
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hi im gosu ?? Senior Member
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01-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
We don't balance the game around solo queue. Our high-level balance goal is around tournament play, which is an area where Classick, Roku, and I have quite a bit of experience. In turn, I'd like to ask you for your tournament credentials, sir.
**** Mang you just got owned +1

 
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Private Katarina ?? Member
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01-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
We don't balance the game around solo queue. Our high-level balance goal is around tournament play, which is an area where Classick, Roku, and I have quite a bit of experience. In turn, I'd like to ask you for your tournament credentials, sir.
Oh SNAP!

So Phreak, why nerf Vayne and as hard as you did?

Why not try out one, maybe two of the nerfs?