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After Hours with Matchmaking and Lyte

View Poll Results: Which matchmaking 'issue' is the most important to you? (See post for more details!)
1) AFKs in Champion Select Lobby 4,693 36.83%
2) Duo-Queue Elo Disparities in Ranked 919 7.21%
3) Skilled Ranked Players in Normal Modes 608 4.77%
4) Premade Matching 635 4.98%
5) Transitioning from Normal to Ranked Mode 1,288 10.11%
6) Free to Play Champions in Ranked Mode 793 6.22%
7) Random Champions in Ranked Mode 628 4.93%
8) Provisional Matches in Ranked 650 5.10%
9) Duo Queue Prevalence in Ranked 390 3.06%
10) Level Disparities 590 4.63%
11) Team Margin of Victory 1,549 12.16%
Voters: 12743. You may not vote on this poll

First Riot Post
 
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isobold ?? Senior Member
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04-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frail Rain View Post
I implore you to check these ideas out. I think they may provide insight and help understand some.of the root issues, which may alleviate some.other issues.
To be honest the thread has nothing that hasn't been discussed here already and no proposal Lyte hasn't already commented on in this thread, even if you just look at the last 25 pages ... I was rather disappointed reading it after this much advertising for it ...

 
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KittyMew90 ?? Senior Member
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04-12-2012

Can you please do something about experienced rank players stomping all over normal players for "fun" or to be trolls? My friends and I have had several experiences where we get matched up with a 5-premade of high-elo ranked players who came to play a normals game simply to rofl-stomp some "noobs" and basically troll win.

 
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Merluza00 ?? Senior Member
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04-12-2012

I would like to see some kind of ingame debuff for fed players on lower level (newbie island).
When I started the game the greatest problems I had was that I was several times matched with pubstompers who picked Yi, jungle nocturne or Ryze and just get 50/3 stats in the end of the game.

If you put some kind of decreasing reward to champions on killing sprees and strong self-debuff aura for legendary players on lvl 1-10 players maybe smurfs will get discouraged to pubstomp. I know that at earlier levels newbies and smurfs have the same potential as both have the same tier 1 rune slots, but smurfs know how to build, lane, junglem last hit and get easy kills.
I saw a stream once of a lvl 2 master yi who duo qeued with other smurf guy and the Yi had 3 PD while many of the newbie enemies where just getting 'newbie builds' (like buying basic AD on mages or stacking boots to run away from Yi more easily). the other smurf was a jungle WW. I was feeling frustrated just for watching that, and feel happy that I've kept playing lol after I suffered the same situations as them.

Now I enjoy every time I manage to get fed, but on lvl10 players this is absoultely not necessary to have fun or learn the game. It's just fun for the sadistic smurf.
downvotes now.

 
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Keyra ?? Member
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04-12-2012

Hi Lyte i'd like to bring something to your attention,

First off I would like to say thank you for your hard work. Most of the problems I wanted to address were already mentioned. Now the suggestion I wanted to address to you is to be weary of rating / voting systems at the end of games. The reason why is because some unskilled player will down vote a player due to inexperience.

For example, a top lanner who is super aggressive and has been pushing his lane for 7/8 minutes. Dies the first time and continues to be aggressive. Dies once again and complains to jungler that he never ganks top lane. In this case the top lanner will downvote the jungler because he didn't gank. BUT, in fact the top lanner should not have down voted the jungler because junglers are "technically" not suppose to gank lanes that are already pushed.

Second situation is bottom lane, AD's get A LOT of heat when doing bad, and at times it IS partially due to the support. For example a soraka support who constantly harasses with her "e" rather than giving mana. The AD dies a couple times and gets all the heat for the team losing when the AD fed bottom lane when actually the support could have helped often but just let his/ her AD die. Therefore the AD would get a downvote at the end of the game when they shouldn't have received a down vote.

I've noticed this often enough as I hover between the 900-1200 elo where people just don't understand how to play their character / role or just don't understand the concept of the game.

So just a warning with the voting system with unskilled / unknowledgeable players down voting at times when they shouldn't be.

Thanks again for all your hard work ^_^

TL;DR:
if a voting system is implemented, unskilled / unknowledgeable players would down vote others due to wrong reasoning

 
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99887 ?? Member
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04-12-2012

In ranked: How about, if someone leaves before a certain time threshold players on the team can vote what sort of role he was playing, and then people outside the game can opt to substitute into the game to replace them.

Ofcourse people subbing in should be able to see the deaths and overall score of the game

 
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Doflamingo51 ?? Member
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04-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyte View Post
recently, we collected a lot of community feedback on matchmaking.
[thread] http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=1827767

i have isolated down a list of issues with matchmaking, and i would love to discuss these with the community as we drive towards some meaningful solutions. Please vote in the poll and join in the discussion!

disclaimer
these are issues i have identified from dialogue with the community. fixing many of these issues will take some time! i will update the discussion as we develop solutions and have better etas.

--- progress ---

1) intentional queue dodging in ranked to lower their elo to stomp low elo players
we are revising the penalty for queue dodging in ranked mode. We intend to remove a player's ability to intentionally queue dodge from ranked mode and tank their elo.


--- list of issues ---

1) afks in champion select lobby
players who queue up for a match and then afk force players to wait through the timers until the lobby boots the afk players out. Alternatively, some players afk and get assigned a random champion, which is also a negative experience for many players. In ranked games, captains tend to see what the bans/picks are like and be able to react accordingly in the next lobby as the players will generally be the same.

2) duo-queue elo disparities in ranked
when players play as a duo-queue in ranked, they generally have an advantage if their elos are fairly close. However, when players play as a duo-queue in ranked and their elos are far apart, they generally are at a disadvantage.

3) skilled ranked players in normal modes
for a very small subset of highly skilled ranked players, their ranked elo is vastly higher than their normal elo. When these skilled ranked players play a normal game they generally play against opponents that are much lower in skill, resulting in lopsided matches.

4) premade matching
currently, the matchmaking system tries to match premade 5s with premade 5s; however, we may consider prioritized matching for other premade types. For example, prioritizing premade 4s to match with premade 4s, and finding a solo queue to fill out each team.

5) transitioning from normal to ranked mode
currently, we do not do a great job of educating players on the transition from normal to ranked modes. What would players like to see here? What should the expectations of ranked be? For example, ranked could be "bring your best, every single game!"

6) free to play champions in ranked mode
related to the transition from normal to ranked mode, some players feel that you should only be able to play champions you own in ranked mode. The argument is that a lot of players who use free to play champions are inexperienced with those champions, adding a lot of noise in the matchmaking system.

7) random champions in ranked mode
some players feel that you should not be able to "random" a champion in ranked play, and that this feature is used to intentionally troll their team in some use cases.

8) provisional matches in ranked
when a player joins ranked for the first time, the system starts them at 1200 elo and begins their "placement matches." unlucky strings of losses or lucky streaks of wins can propel a player into an elo tier they do not belong in. Alternatively, players generally do not like playing with or against players in their placement matches and seeing they have only 1-9 wins.

9) duo queue prevalence in ranked
currently, it is possible to get two pairs of duo-queue players per team in ranked mode, such that you have a team composed of duo-queue, duo-queue, and a solo-queue. Some data suggests that we should restrict the number of duo-queues per team to 1.

10) level disparities
some players feel that as a low level, they should never be matched against level 30s because they feel the match is unfair due to level 30 rune/mastery advantages. Although these players are highly skilled low levels, they would prefer a different solution than facing an opponent with simply 'stronger stats.'

11) team margin of victory
some players argue that in epic, close matches, teams should not gain or lose the exact same elo as a lopsided match. What are good metrics for "team margin of victory" that are focused on promoting team play and not individual performances?
fix normal draft

 
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Toss Baws ?? Senior Member
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04-12-2012

Would getting team mates who obviously don't have 2 hands count as a level disparity?

Cause if so, that one.

 
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Couchon ?? Member
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04-12-2012

I'm not sure if what I am about to say can be corrected through Matchmaking, but lords of Riot - please help!

Quick background - newer player, didn't enter ranked until I had 300 normal wins. Started off 10-3 in ranked and climed to 1430 - I was lucky and was carried through a lot of those. Then went on a 1-11 streak, and settled in around 1200 ELO. I was always just under even, and the longest time, -5 wins compared to losses. I felt the games were pretty close and that is where I belonged.

Then, things got real bad - real fast. Huge losing streaks, seems like mostly AFK'ers, trolls, and intentional feeders (on the WINS as well as LOSSES) so I started tracking my games in a spreadsheet.

Objectively, after every game, I chose what the determining factor was in describing that game (for BOTH wins and losses). My categories are:

INTENTIONAL FEEDER (WIN/LOSS) - I only click this if the person is obviously feeding intentionally (running into towers, saying they are going to feed, etc. NOT when someone is just getting beat bad, but trying. So, if we win and the other team has a feeder, it's WIN - Intentional Feeder. Opposite if we lose for the same reason.

TROLL PICK (WIN/LOSS) - Now, If someone picks Eve but is actually good with them and trying to play on the team, and build correctly for the game, I don't pick troll. But, if two people are arguing over mid and both take an AP mid (last game - Ryze support and Veigar mid) and we get destroyed (or destroy the other team) because of it, I click this category. Also, if they build all boots, TROLL PICK.

AFK (WIN/LOSS) - if anyone on either time AFK's for 10 minutes or more, it's categorized.

GOOD (WIN/LOS) - this is a good game - where either team actually has a chance to win, no one trolls, no one AFK's, no one feeds - a close game that could go either way.

LOPSIDED (WIN/LOSS) - none of the bad categories present, but your team just gets completely destroyed for one reason or another.

Since I play 10 games a week, I group them in clumps of 10. Here are the results of my last 10 games. (it also makes for nice % rounding =) - While 10 games is a small sample size, I am going to track multiple 10s. Without further ADO:

3 wins (2 AFK on other team wins, 1 GOOD win)
7 losses (1 Intentional Feed on our team loss, 1 Troll Pick loss, 4 AFK losses, 1 Lopsided loss).

-60% of my last 10 games were decided by someone AFK'ing for 10 minutes or more
-including the AFK above - 80% of my last 10 games were decided by nothing to do with gameplay
-10% of my games were 'good' - fun games that either side could have won
-10% of my games were blowouts

How can you make matchmaking fix that? 80% of games ruined through trolls, intentional feeders, and afk'ers. Makes matchmaking pointless if you can't correct that problem.

Reiterating - yes, 10 games is a small sample size, but my last 30 felt about the same breakdown (which is why I decided to start tracking) - and I'll update my next 10 after I play them. I have a feeling when I get to 100 games tracked, it won't be too far off from that.

 
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Lyte Lyte's Avatar ?? Lead Designer of Social Systems

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81 of 362 Riot Posts
04-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyra View Post
Hi Lyte i'd like to bring something to your attention,

First off I would like to say thank you for your hard work. Most of the problems I wanted to address were already mentioned. Now the suggestion I wanted to address to you is to be weary of rating / voting systems at the end of games. The reason why is because some unskilled player will down vote a player due to inexperience.

For example, a top lanner who is super aggressive and has been pushing his lane for 7/8 minutes. Dies the first time and continues to be aggressive. Dies once again and complains to jungler that he never ganks top lane. In this case the top lanner will downvote the jungler because he didn't gank. BUT, in fact the top lanner should not have down voted the jungler because junglers are "technically" not suppose to gank lanes that are already pushed.

Second situation is bottom lane, AD's get A LOT of heat when doing bad, and at times it IS partially due to the support. For example a soraka support who constantly harasses with her "e" rather than giving mana. The AD dies a couple times and gets all the heat for the team losing when the AD fed bottom lane when actually the support could have helped often but just let his/ her AD die. Therefore the AD would get a downvote at the end of the game when they shouldn't have received a down vote.

I've noticed this often enough as I hover between the 900-1200 elo where people just don't understand how to play their character / role or just don't understand the concept of the game.

So just a warning with the voting system with unskilled / unknowledgeable players down voting at times when they shouldn't be.

Thanks again for all your hard work ^_^

TL;DR:
if a voting system is implemented, unskilled / unknowledgeable players would down vote others due to wrong reasoning
Hi Keyra, thanks for the comments. We are not moving towards any type of system where a player can rate another player's performance or skill at the end of a game because of many of the issues you listed; I don't feel it provides that much value to the game from a player's perspective, or a matchmaking perspective.

 
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Fel666 ?? Senior Member
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04-12-2012

It should take atleast 300 normal wins before being able to Q for ranked