The numbers in this thread just don't make sense.

The fact is if you get X flat pen/reduction and your opponent gets X MR you've exactly broken even. That's just the math.

If the opponent can get X MR for less gold than you can get X pen you are coming out behind, and the more gold you both spend this way the further behind you'll be.

That's fine, if the idea is that MR should be cheaper than mpen. But X MR counters X pen, because X-X = 0. It is exactly what counter means, as in counter-balance or counter-weight - you get pen, they get MR, and you are back to where you started.

I recall someone proposing a "legendary-tier" Trinity Force which builds out of Trinity Force, Phantom Dancer and Frozen Mallet.

he's tricking you

10% increase in overall magical damage is just 10-20 mr penetration in another form

This is exactly why I'd stated earlier, I'd thought about changes to the item (cause I'd wondered what would make people start buying it, too), but all of them seemed to be too strong.

If you don't remove the mPen from the item, a straight buff would be absolutely terrifying. So something else has to go. But for that to go, the item needs utility, but to be honest, utility on an item that gives you the awesome returns that MPen can give; would be too strong and become a must buy.

If you remove MPen from the item, it loses the cool little niche it fills as the only AP + flat MPen item.

It's a complicated item!

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without a doubt, lol.

I suspect a multitude of hot teen guys OP threads.

it's not a trick at all, 10% becomes more and more efficient the higher mr your opponent has. i.e. when that 200 mr top laner against a duo-ap comp shows up to the party, you tickle him slightly less, and effectively penetrate much more than 20 mr granted that you have a void staff. %increases stack well with penetration, flat and %penetration stack poorly.


I'm still very curious to see where the current Haunting Guise would ever fit in a competitive match, or whether it's ever a viable choice at all considering the need to balance offensive/defensive/utility items and other items being much more important

Actually it's less until the enemy gets +200 mr so the item is actually even more worthless lmao

I guess you are being snide, but that's how the math works.

This is obvious if you simply write down the damage formula and can do algebra, or can just add and subtract.

X MR exactly balances out X pen. If you disagree I'd love to hear how if you buy X pen and I buy X MR you are now doing more damage than before. Buying the same amount of pen and MR is exactly the same as nobody buying anything.