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Mage Ability Damage Creep

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2pudge1cup ?? Senior Member
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05-16-2012

It isn't just mages.

Just look at someone like graves vs. trundle (I know not the same roles but bare with me here).

Graves has 3 damaging abilities and a dash that increases his AS, including his utility spell that also deals damage. Smoke screen feels like a move that really shouldn't do any damage since it slows and cuts off vision.

Trundle has really 2 abilities. Pillar and contaminate do no damage. I can't help thinking that if trundle were released today the pillar would do some amount of aoe damage as would contaminate.

That isn't to say that either champ is imbalanced. It's just weird that typical utility/defense abilities are now being traded for utility abilities that also deal damage.

 
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ObscureClockwork ?? Senior Member
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05-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxdec View Post
Ahri, Cass and Ziggs are "pure damage" mages?

Ahri has 3 repositioning skills bundled into her ulti with a cc that makes enemies run towards you on a short CD.

Cass has a team wide slow or stun and a skill that can check bushes so you never have to facecheck.

Ziggs has long ranged poke, a skill that can zone off ramps and passages, a skill that can knock enemies away and allow you to jump walls and an ult that can assist from half the map away.

Seems like you haven't played either of those champs.
actually, hes not mistaken on ahri's status of pure damage mage
if you actually read his post, old mages, like annie and ryze, have 3 damage spells, and 1 utility spell.
nowadays, most mages have 4 damage spells (as with kennen, ahri, ziggs, cass) so they are geared towards dealing damage, not 3 damage one utility

i think that riot should try to make the 3 spells 1 utitlity mages on par if they arent, with pure damage mages. they dont have to deal the same damage, but they should have something to make them wanted.

the thing is pure damage mages do get lots of damage in, and they can carry. maybe somehow, riot should allow the legacy and utility mages be able to carry as well (not by damage, ofc, defeats the purpose of pure damage) but by utility with decent damage?

 
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TherIsNoUrfLevel ?? Senior Member
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05-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by un1337 View Post
[NA] SoBeNirvana (Now:Unranked, S1:Unranked), RankedSolo5x5: <1200 [6W/7L], Dominion: 101W/72L, Normal: 494W/454L

yup been playing since the game was released?
Blue name = Adjudicator
Adjudicator = Beta Tester

Hurr durr hurr hurr

 
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ObscureClockwork ?? Senior Member
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05-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCray0n View Post
Blue name = Adjudicator
Adjudicator = Beta Tester

Hurr durr hurr hurr
i thought everybody knew this?

 
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Aimzee ?? Member
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05-16-2012

Actually all of Annie's spells deal damage. If that's your only criteria.

 
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ObscureClockwork ?? Senior Member
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05-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimzee View Post
Actually all of Annie's spells deal damage. If that's your only criteria.
her shield isnt exactly meant for "damage" its pretty much utility (for herself albeit)
it does damage, but i don't think that qualifies her for a pure-damage mage (in the sense that if they dont attack you, they don't take damage)

 
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Kyrrion ?? Senior Member
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05-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimzee View Post
Actually all of Annie's spells deal damage. If that's your only criteria.
I'm pretty sure he means more offensive spells.

Annie's shield does do damage to those who attack her, but it's far more of a utility spell than an offensive one.

 
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ObscureClockwork ?? Senior Member
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05-16-2012

there is the fact that some of the these mages get pretty insane damage as well though
if you look at morgana's damage, its actually pretty high
if you look at fiddlestick's damage, its pretty high too (but his is channels)
ryze has high damage output too.

i think part of the reason they aren't picked is becuase of what you said, the pew pew factor. its a cooldown imbalance (and probably why ryze, and fiddles sees some play, due to their lower than average cooldowns)
could also be why orianna isnt as popular, due to a lower rate of re targeting her spells compared to other mages

 
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ricklessabandon ricklessabandon's Avatar ?? qa analyst
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1 of 3 Riot Posts
05-16-2012

the three most recent mages released were: ahri, viktor, and ziggs (in that order).
you mentioned ahri and ziggs, which have 4 damaging abilities, but you didn't mention viktor who has 3 damaging abilities and a utility spell without damage.

aside from that though, the 'damage potential' from a mage's kit is defined by much more than the number of damaging spells--there's base damages, ap ratios, offensive utility (such as magic resist shred), and cooldowns. looking at the kits as a whole, i don't think there's a huge shift in design philosophy between ap carries of today and yesteryear. at least, i don't think anyone has been left behind in that regard.

 
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OJ191 ?? Senior Member
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05-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pudge1cup View Post
It isn't just mages.

Just look at someone like graves vs. trundle (I know not the same roles but bare with me here).

Graves has 3 damaging abilities and a dash that increases his AS, including his utility spell that also deals damage. Smoke screen feels like a move that really shouldn't do any damage since it slows and cuts off vision.

Trundle has really 2 abilities. Pillar and contaminate do no damage. I can't help thinking that if trundle were released today the pillar would do some amount of aoe damage as would contaminate.

That isn't to say that either champ is imbalanced. It's just weird that typical utility/defense abilities are now being traded for utility abilities that also deal damage.
Probably Contaminate would deal DoT and Pillar would have knockup + damage if you put it exactly on someone.