I agree, but the conversation was about whether Riot wants to define a meta, and we don't! We want players to explore, try out new strategies, and allow the meta to evolve.

Since I guess you do do work on the tribunal, I think lobby chat logs would help alleviate some of the issues, once you guys do figure out the technology to do it. Then the tribunal can hopefully help to figure out if the trolls in question during the "2 mids" "2 tops" scenario and how the team treated the player vs how the player was really acting, so we can see if it was the team forcing the player into a role they didn't want or couldn't do, vs the player just not not getting their way.

I disagree with this. Just like Pendragon said, sometimes, life happens and you have to leave. I don't think you should be penalized just for leaving once because you have to go. However, if chat logs show you leave when things don't go your way then you should get punished. Tribunal should also show champ select logs.


That problem lies in the attitude of the community. If people would learn how to play any role, be reasonable and respect picking order then problems like 2 mid because someone wants to be a pain in the ass wouldn't exist. The reason people don't want to support is because it's not really fun or rewarding.

I think if someone never connects to the game, (like the pick their champion and they're there in champ select, but when the loading screen starts their picture is completely black...) it should be an auto loss forgiven.

At least, can you make them not sit in queue for 1 hour to face 1700 players?

You have just opened the floodgates. Thousands of trolls will now play double mid, double jungle, double top, triple ad, anythingbutsupport, isweareveisviable, and they will quote this thread as justification.

Ranked is for winning games. Going "against the meta" with 4 strangers is not for winning games, and in most cases is just something people use as an excuse to troll. If I'm playing a ranked game and somebody decides to double mid, I will report them.

Our players are fairly accurate in detecting trolls That's why the Tribunal is as effective as it is. In the near future, I may do a new thread just talking about general player behavior issues, including discussions related to the Tribunal.

It's not quite so simple. Some people might join a game with the intent of trolling, play roaming eve, and be level 2 at the 8 minute mark. Those players are obvious trolls and yes will likely be punished, despite using "against the meta" as a shield.

However, there are many other cases where things aren't so clear-cut. What if somebody is last pick and his team wants him to play support, is he allowed to pick a 2nd mid instead? According to you he is, and that is going to ruin a game. What if somebody wants to play eve top lane? They can genuinely want to try at it and so you would be wrong to report them, but there's still a 99% chance that they'll feed and ruin the game.

It's a complicated issue for sure, but I think there absolutely needs to be some requirements to adhere to the meta in ranked. I think we can all agree that something like AP Yi is acceptable (borderline maybe), but playing triple jungle isn't. I wish Riot would more clearly lay out the rules.

I agree, some cases are not clear-cut; however, when I did some analyses on the subtle / on the edge cases, our players were quite accurate compared to our Player Support team.

If we defined some clear rules or guidelines to playing the game, how would the meta evolve? We might still be in an era where Ranged AD was playing mid!

How *would* we agree that AP Yi mid is acceptable? Would the rules be different for different Elo brackets?

Well I don't have access to the kind of data you do but in my experience champion select is the most consistently troubling portion of the game in ranked. I think a lot of problems could be solved by just including it in the tribunal but you guys can't seem to find a way to do that. You don't need to set a rigid meta and force everyone to follow it, but if 4 people in a game want to follow the meta and the 5th person doesn't, then I think the system should support the 4 people rather than give the 5th the right to do whatever they want.

I know the whole champion select in tribunal thing has been beaten to death already, but I'm not sure you guys realize just how important it is. Ideally if one person wants to play something like AP Yi and the other 4 people on his team are asking him nicely not to, that person should be reported with the champion select chat log showing up in the tribunal.

In the absence of chat logs, perhaps you could simply write out some guidelines to champion select and put them somewhere visible. Let people know what the team captain is and why they are in that spot, make it very clear that champ select should be a cooperative effort, and make it clear that if communication breaks down role selection should default to pick order.

Like all other player behaviour things following the meta should be up to the players and the community to decide what is acceptable, and I just think that without adding more to the tribunal there isn't a good way to control this type of thing. That being said it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of players aren't ok with people playing Eve in ranked and so I would discourage Rioter's from telling people that it's ok to do.