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So can we all agree now that Sona is incredibly weak?

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Caetilwyn ?? Senior Member
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06-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
In support's case specifically, this is a bigger issue because Soraka and Sona are built on shaky design foundations to begin with. On the flip side, both have a pretty loyal fanbase who enjoy those playstyles and get really angry about changes to them - even if the game or character would get better as a result.

I agree with your analysis that Soraka (and likely Sona) will always be either flattened out, lackluster or must-picks with their current core designs - do we change those and let their power shine more? Do we nerf core mechanics to be balanced and remove fun from the players who do like them? We have done this before, and I think our ability to do so today is much better, but it's always risky and a tough decision.
I personally main Soraka and I absolutely love her. She is my favorite champion, but I understand that a lot of people hate her due to her sustain and passivity. Though I honestly wouldn't be against you guys making her less heal dependent if you'd actually give her the ability to be useful outside of healing.

It's always boggled my mind that you guys have not done some of the following changes considering you've often said you felt she was toxic to the game.

1:Starcall
Increased Starcalls Range
Reworked Starcall into a Target-able AoE Spell. ( Similar to Lux's Lucent Singularity )
Increased Starcalls Damage
Reduced its AoE Radius
Increased its cooldown
Reduce its Ap Ratio

2: Astral Blessing
Remove the armor buff.
Reduce the amount of health recovered.
Reduced the cool down.
DRASTICALLY Reduced the mana cost.
Make it heal a base amount and then so much over time.

3: Infuse
Increase its base damage.
Give it mana cost on enemy cast.
Reduce its ap ratio

4: Wish
Give it a 2 Second Channel Time.
Make it apply Astral Blessing's armor bonus to all allies DURING the channel time and then heal all allies after the channeling has finished.
Increase it's base healing amount.
Reduce its Ap Ratio.

I mean, some of this may need tweaked but it seems like a logical step in fixing her from passivity and massive heal dependency. It however also allows her to still feel like a healer ( Which I love about her ) without completely making her useless.

I feel changes like this would also make Wish more of a "Lets initiate a team fight" instead of an "Oh ****, everyone's going to die" spell. Helping to alleviate the negative feeling she imposes on the enemy team when it comes to escaping ganks or preventing those near death kills.

Her ultimate would feel more satisfying due to the larger health recovered. Making it truly feel like an ultimate. However her over-all healing throughout the game would be reduced due to the Astral Blessing nerfs. I feel this would cause her to be less "Annoying" during the laning phase but allow her to be useful during late game as well.

I don't mind her healing ratios going down and being reworked into a more active champion. I just want to see real changes to the way her abilities work and not just number tweaks. There is a reason Starcall is not used among support Soraka's and it's not because of its damage...it's because the spells implementation is terrible.

 
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Siriner ?? Senior Member
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06-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I'm saying if I released healing characters tomorrow, they'd have long CD high impact heals only, and never have sustain-style healing.
Oh, that makes sense - as sustain heals are problematic then if it was a clutch heal for team fights then that would be a better trade off.

 
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SlowBroMide ?? Senior Member
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06-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I'm saying if I released healing characters tomorrow, they'd have long CD high impact heals only, and never have sustain-style healing.
This is problematic, though, because it makes for a sub-par support in lane. Sustain out-classes it wholesale (see soraka, taric), and all-in lanes can easily bait the cooldown, walk away, and then kill you 10 seconds later (see alistar, leona). I don't see how it would ever be viable in the LoL we currently have. Bottom lane just doesn't work that way. Period.

 
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Morello Morello's Avatar ?? Lead Content Designer
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11 of 11 Riot Posts
06-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauron View Post
Yeah, you are. Wrong, that is. I agree with the basic idea of "sometimes characters need a chainsaw". I also agree with the assessment that most of those champions are supports.

I am a support main. I love my supports, but would love even more for them to be fun and healthy for the game. Janna is beautiful, I enjoy Soraka clutch heals, and Sona was pretty fun for me while her Q harass was worth its risk. That being said, I can entirely see how some of their mechanics are toxic or just difficult, and I really don't appreciate you implying that I (and support players as a whole) think otherwise, especially when you put it in such a passive-aggressive way.
No statement is all-inclusive, but frankly, most people are more concerned with their own experience than that of millions If you see both sides, you're looking at it objectively, which isn't actually all that common!

 
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Malurth ?? Senior Member
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06-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I'm saying if I released healing characters tomorrow, they'd have long CD high impact heals only, and never have sustain-style healing.
So, this means if we want a support with a sustain heal (which is its own significant strength), we're only ever going to have about five options?

 
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Manozi ?? Senior Member
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06-11-2012

morello, i know this is off topic but why are you ignoring my posts?

 
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Risemix ?? Senior Member
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06-11-2012

Hi, Morello. In the case of Sona, do you think that if you (hypothetically!) reworked Sona, you'd want to keep her ult as is and design around that?

I love Sona for her ult. It's very satisfying and really makes playing Sona feel good, which I honestly can't say about the rest of her kit. Playing Sona in lane feels like hitting buttons occasionally and ulting to make plays -- for this reason I think her ult is probably the only part of her kit that is truly worth saving (although maybe not in its exact current incarnation) in the face of a remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malurth View Post
So, this means if we want a support with a sustain heal (which is its own significant strength), we're only ever going to have about five options?
Frankly, you're lucky it isn't 0!

 
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Dark Suigintou ?? Senior Member
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06-11-2012

Just rework Soraka. Its only a problem until you just fix it, whatever problems you see with the design of the current toxic supports.

Make W a targetable damage reduce spell with the old 10 second CD, but does not heal at all. There. Now you can balance Wish as the only burst heal spell in the game, as you mentioned before, "I like Wish".

Edit: Oh yea, while I'm at it, revert Sona's aura nerfs. All of it. Who the hell thought that was OP. :|

 
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Caetilwyn ?? Senior Member
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06-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Suigintou View Post

Make W a targetable damage reduce spell with the old 10 second CD, but does not heal at all. There. Now you can balance Wish as the only burst heal spell in the game, as you mentioned before, "I like Wish".
Sadly, this is just hard to balance as healing unfortunately. If she has a damage reduction ability that's based on a percentage the ability can either go from being useless, to incredibly powerful.

It's sort of the same problem they are having with her heal at the moment. It's either useful or trash. Too much and it's more useful than intended, but too little and it's useless, put it in the middle and it feels lack-luster.

 
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Verosce ?? Senior Member
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06-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayla8590 View Post
I'm sorry, you said that Karma, Kat and stealth are being looked at. Am I mistaken or was Soraka next up to be "looked" at?
You're thinking of the art rework. Nothing was said about her gameplay.