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After Hours with Matchmaking and Lyte

View Poll Results: Which matchmaking 'issue' is the most important to you? (See post for more details!)
1) AFKs in Champion Select Lobby 4,690 36.96%
2) Duo-Queue Elo Disparities in Ranked 910 7.17%
3) Skilled Ranked Players in Normal Modes 603 4.75%
4) Premade Matching 633 4.99%
5) Transitioning from Normal to Ranked Mode 1,282 10.10%
6) Free to Play Champions in Ranked Mode 792 6.24%
7) Random Champions in Ranked Mode 627 4.94%
8) Provisional Matches in Ranked 645 5.08%
9) Duo Queue Prevalence in Ranked 384 3.03%
10) Level Disparities 584 4.60%
11) Team Margin of Victory 1,538 12.12%
Voters: 12688. You may not vote on this poll

First Riot Post
 
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Cae vida loka ?? Member
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06-18-2012

Lyte sorry if its off topic:

Have you guys ever thought about letting us see our harassment level at least once per month?

Just to be able to see if we're being reported, not the reason of the report. I think players would be a lot more scared to troll if they know they're going to get banned

 
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TheChineseOne ?? Senior Member
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06-18-2012

Lyte
I want to know why matchmaking matches me up with players who are very low skilled players stat wise. My entire LoL career I have been getting matched with players who did very horrid in the game. When I check their stats post game, they have only played 100-800 games total and, in my experience, players who have only played between these amount of games are ones who are not caught up with updates and the "Meta" and players who tend to follow the meta will often win. I am now devoured with LoL Matches and LoL King to check all of my teammates stats before the game even starts and if I find any who are between 100-800 games total or their match history has games in which they they did very sub par (low K/D, bad item choices, low cs, low Level to game time ratio, etc.), I can't see myself put up with a game that relates to so many of my previous games that really changed my mind about playing this game ever, so I dodge the game and I believe that's why many of the people are dodging to begin with. There are times where I just think that stats do not matter and blah blah but the results are consistent. In fact, I get them at least EVERY day and when I don't, is when I only play a maximum of 1 or 3 games. I took up coop vs ai a while back just to get my win of the day and test champs/builds/etc. but I realized this will just make me less appealing to other players if they ever find out so I stopped (although it probably made me better than them). I would love to get an answer and I am just desperate to because the future of this game and me relies on it basically.
Thank you.

 
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isobold ?? Senior Member
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06-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaeta View Post
Would it not be a good idea to give that information to the players, so that we don't queue together, without any voicechat or anything, into a predictable slaughter?
Do you really need information about the obvious? The reason to go premade is better communication. I even refuse to play with friends in a premade, when they refuse to come onto our ts3, because the slaughter will be predictable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChineseOne View Post
I want to know why matchmaking matches me up with players who are very low skilled players stat wise.
You answered the question yourself already. There is more to this game than just stats. If you have good stats most of the games yet get still matched with people with lower stats, you are playing bad on other parts of the game than the mechanical part. Good stats are often achieved by players who mastered the laning of this game. But laning is just one part.

Let me give you an exaggerated example to demonstrate:

Let's imagine a player who goes rampage each and every game. He stomps his opponents like mad, going 25/0/XX every game, without ever leaving his lane. Then, by the 15 minutes mark, he goes back to base and never leaves it again. Surely his team will be able to win some of those 4vs5 games. But most of those games will be a loss. Even so the player had the best scores, he made his team lose those games.

To add insult to injury, going back to base and not move again isn't the worst mistake one could make in this game (although being pretty close). So while you might dominate your lane, chances are high that you are making huge mistakes during other parts of the game, which keeps your Elo low enough to get matched with and against players, who don't do these mistakes, but who can't dominate their lane as much as you do.

MM relies on Elo to match people. Since Elo basically is a measurement for success, all relevant factors for winning a game are factored into it. So if you are doing something consistently better than the average player on your Elo, you have to be doing something else consistently worse than the average player on your Elo as you would raise in Elo and not get matched with and against those players anymore if you wouldn't.

 
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TheChineseOne ?? Senior Member
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06-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by isobold View Post
Do you really need information about the obvious? The reason to go premade is better communication. I even refuse to play with friends in a premade, when they refuse to come onto our ts3, because the slaughter will be predictable.




You answered the question yourself already. There is more to this game than just stats. If you have good stats most of the games yet get still matched with people with lower stats, you are playing bad on other parts of the game than the mechanical part. Good stats are often achieved by players who mastered the laning of this game. But laning is just one part.

Let me give you an exaggerated example to demonstrate:

Let's imagine a player who goes rampage each and every game. He stomps his opponents like mad, going 25/0/XX every game, without ever leaving his lane. Then, by the 15 minutes mark, he goes back to base and never leaves it again. Surely his team will be able to win some of those 4vs5 games. But most of those games will be a loss. Even so the player had the best scores, he made his team lose those games.

To add insult to injury, going back to base and not move again isn't the worst mistake one could make in this game (although being pretty close). So while you might dominate your lane, chances are high that you are making huge mistakes during other parts of the game, which keeps your Elo low enough to get matched with and against players, who don't do these mistakes, but who can't dominate their lane as much as you do.

MM relies on Elo to match people. Since Elo basically is a measurement for success, all relevant factors for winning a game are factored into it. So if you are doing something consistently better than the average player on your Elo, you have to be doing something else consistently worse than the average player on your Elo as you would raise in Elo and not get matched with and against those players anymore if you wouldn't.
Did you read my entire post? Also My normal elo is around 1800 http://lolmatches.com/player/na/22059870/TheChineseOne
(matchmaking made it lower)
and also I'm not sure if you are smurfing but you aren't even level 30 so you are specifically the ones I was talking about in my first post. Additionally, I am fairly certain that the evidence you offered is false and that MM doesn't appraise based on those factors. In conclusion, I would like to say that when I typed "stat wise" it has a correlation to my entire post because it is the topic sentence.

 
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kabaab ?? Senior Member
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06-19-2012

I just finished a ranked game..

My team games played
164
4
19
15
118

Opposition team
127
193
445
430
64

Final score 20/44/34 - 44/20/79

Our team got schooled so hard it was not funny just look at the score, there needs to be something in the system that matches people not just on elo but the amount of games they have played I honestly feels unless players have won 100 ranked games they really don't know what the hell is going on ...

Those players with less then 20 games in this instance played worse then bots...

And what happens my elo gets dragged down as well :/

 
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GodEmperorLetoII ?? Senior Member
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06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Even before the patch changes, what stopped you from picking Eve and trying to force players to queue dodge and intentionally being toxic?

The purpose of this change isn't to curb all toxicity in Champ Select Lobby--we have other things in the works for that. The main purpose of this change is to stop players abusing the -Elo penalty to drop their Elo on purpose to stomp on lower skilled players.
Better question, why is Eve STILL in such a crappy place she's considered a troll pick when you legitimately enjoyed playing her once /sadpanda

Mundo was in a crappy place, then got buffs, now he's fine.... just rebuff Eve and tell players to l2p. Get some real better practice tools out there like the challenges idea presented way way earlier in this thread that helps them learn how to utilize wards and positioning. It's ridiculous she's still this bad for this long...

 
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Lyte Lyte's Avatar ?? Lead Designer of Social Systems

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248 of 362 Riot Posts
06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRPatxi View Post
@Lyte don't know if this is helpful info but something I have seen in Ranked(way too many times) is that people with 5 wins are getting queued with people with 50 wins against people with 100+ wins, and the player that doesn't have a lot of exp in Ranked games will just get caught in the jungle and other places which results in his team loosing.

Another observation is that a lot of players start to go ranked as soon as they reach 30, and even worst some players get to 30 just by playing Dominion and coop vs AI then without any sort of experience drop to play ranked .

I think summoners must get certain amounts of Games played or Wins/Creep Score/Kills before starting to rank. This will not solve all problems with queue but will prevent at least a few unnecessary loses for some teams.

Thanks for listening, hope info is helpful.
I've discussed this before the thread, but raising arbitrary barriers to Ranked actually does not solve this problem. If I set the requirements to play Ranked at 300 Wins, you will still see players that start playing Ranked and "shouldn't belong there." This is because we are simply shifting the entire Ranked population a certain direction versus actually solving the problem which is placing players in the appropriate tier as soon as possible.

 
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Fatpapapanda ?? Senior Member
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06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I've discussed this before the thread, but raising arbitrary barriers to Ranked actually does not solve this problem. If I set the requirements to play Ranked at 300 Wins, you will still see players that start playing Ranked and "shouldn't belong there." This is because we are simply shifting the entire Ranked population a certain direction versus actually solving the problem which is placing players in the appropriate tier as soon as possible.
I don't have any player data as far as pool dept goes, but wouldn't a two dimensional system work for matchmaking purposes? Elo rating and games played both being taken into account. Typically, the best games I've had were against and with experienced players on ranked, at roughly my level.

Increasing the amount of placement matches could also be a good way to properly asses a player's Elo value.

 
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Lyte Lyte's Avatar ?? Lead Designer of Social Systems

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249 of 362 Riot Posts
06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatpapapanda View Post
I don't have any player data as far as pool dept goes, but wouldn't a two dimensional system work for matchmaking purposes? Elo rating and games played both being taken into account. Typically, the best games I've had were against and with experienced players on ranked, at roughly my level.

Increasing the amount of placement matches could also be a good way to properly asses a player's Elo value.
I've been looking into the data to see if number of Ranked wins has a significant impact on game outcomes, but so far I am not seeing anything. I think in many cases, players are just remembering matches where there was a player who was Unranked or playing their first 10 or 20 matches (half of those being Provisional)... and thinking that number of Ranked wins made all the difference. Actually, in those situations, it's just because the system has not acquired enough information about the new Ranked players to place them appropriately.

 
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isobold ?? Senior Member
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06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChineseOne View Post
Did you read my entire post?
I did. Did you read my post? Or why do you brag about your Elo? What I said isn't related to your Elo at all, and considering your Elo it's sad you needed that explanation.

As you are "only" 1800 Elo, there is obviously plenty of stuff you could do better :-P Obviously your laning isn't your weak spot. Try to work on the other parts of the game to get to 2k+ Elo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChineseOne View Post
also I'm not sure if you are smurfing but you aren't even level 30 so you are specifically the ones I was talking about in my first post.
You were talking about EU-players who are discussing on the US-forums using an US-account, since they aren't able to login to the US-forums with their EU-account?



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChineseOne View Post
Additionally, I am fairly certain that the evidence you offered is false and that MM doesn't appraise based on those factors.
MM works based on Elo. Elo is based on success of a player. Success is based on the bottom line of everything you do in game, which I tried to explain to you in my post. So you might be certain, but you are wrong ^^