North America - English

League of Legends Community

League of Legends Community > Maps and Modes > Dominion
The Minions are Imbalanced.

First Riot Post
 
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Rebonack ?? Senior Member
This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information
06-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
SR and TT turrets currently use an interesting mechanic to help AP-dominant champs stay relevant. To quote the LoL Wikia:

Is there interest in adding this mechanic to the melee minions on Dominion?
It might make LeBlarg a viable pick bot.

Right now she can totally murder her foe and then get out-pushed by a handful of enemy minions.

 
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Ardnalis ?? Senior Member
This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information
06-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
SR and TT turrets currently use an interesting mechanic to help AP-dominant champs stay relevant. To quote the LoL Wikia:

Is there interest in adding this mechanic to the melee minions on Dominion?
To clarify, do you meaning AP's AA do 40% more damage to melee minions based on their AP? If so, I'd be intrigued to see what that does.

 
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Super Nomegeta Super Nomegeta's Avatar ?? Game Designer
This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information
2 of 3 Riot Posts
06-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardnalis View Post
To clarify, do you meaning AP's AA do 40% more damage to melee minions based on their AP? If so, I'd be intrigued to see what that does.
It means that if you have 50 base damage, 400 AP and 20 bonus AD, you will do 50 + .4*400 premitigation damage to melee minions, since 40% of 400 is greater than 20.

 
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Warrrrax ?? Senior Member
This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information
06-21-2012

That would be a nice adjustment I suppose, but why not just lower the minion magic resistance instead?

I mean, look at some of the best bottom pusher champs. Are they all AD? No.

Cass, Heimer, Ryze(well, eventually). They seem to do fine and since AP spells tend to be more bursty, they are usually able to kill groups of minions just as well as AD.

Heck, AD Mal is STILL a spellcaster and the large majority of his pushing is done via spells. He doesn't even GET any AD until he finishes a Manamune or goes brutalizer/hexdrinker/etc. Yet I think he pushes juuust fine early on.

Basically any pusher-type AP does just fine in dominion with pushing. You wouldn't really expect an Assassin like LeBlanc to be a good pusher rite?

-------
Oh and plz quit bugging the ONE whole Riot employee who posts here with Grammar-Nazi stuff. Thx.

 
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Catnium ?? Senior Member
This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information
06-21-2012

this change would make mordekeiser an even bigger pushing machine than he already is

 
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Cauldrath ?? Senior Member
This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information
06-21-2012

I'm not sure why it would be the melee minions that you would be targeting with this change. Melee minions hold waves in place, while caster minions are what push down lanes. If the concern is AP champs getting minions pushed against them, it seems like adding damage against caster minions would be more helpful, but pushing minions seems like the least of the problems AP casters have.

As to the original post, magic damage is doing just fine in Dominion. Look at Kassadin, Warwick, Poppy, Lulu, AD Malz, etc. AP is where the problem is - it just happens that most AP damage is magic damage. AP just doesn't translate into damage anywhere near as well as AD, procs, magic pen, and base damage do, especially without Rabadon's. SR is balanced around mages with Rabadon's and blue buff, with them being able to front-load a lot of burst onto enemies that are generally squishy enough to care about that burst, then they can hang out for a bit and do it again later while holding behind the stronger towers and larger teams, but burst damage doesn't mean nearly as much in Dominion if you can't finish the job.

That's why what is needed is some source of sustained DPS that comes from AP. Don't limit the AP ratio to minions - give an auto-attack AP ratio against champions, even if it's in item form, like as a Malady upgrade.

EDIT: To put things more into perspective, at max CDR, Morgana gains just under 1 damage per second for every 3 AP she has. Sunfire Cape is considered a weak item for increasing your damage, but you would have to build over 120 AP to increase your dps by the same amount. So, for 2610 gold, you are getting roughly the equivalent of 3 Blasting Wands of dps (which costs 2580), plus all that armor and health. All this for what is generally considered a bad item.

 
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Crow Squid ?? Senior Member
This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information
06-21-2012

i am loving this foot based red and his love for the other maps. Sure make it so.

 
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
ElevenOfClubs ?? Senior Member
This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information
06-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cauldrath View Post
I'm not sure why it would be the melee minions that you would be targeting with this change. Melee minions hold waves in place, while caster minions are what push down lanes. If the concern is AP champs getting minions pushed against them, it seems like adding damage against caster minions would be more helpful, but pushing minions seems like the least of the problems AP casters have.

As to the original post, magic damage is doing just fine in Dominion. Look at Kassadin, Warwick, Poppy, Lulu, AD Malz, etc. AP is where the problem is - it just happens that most AP damage is magic damage. AP just doesn't translate into damage anywhere near as well as AD, procs, magic pen, and base damage do, especially without Rabadon's. SR is balanced around mages with Rabadon's and blue buff, with them being able to front-load a lot of burst onto enemies that are generally squishy enough to care about that burst, then they can hang out for a bit and do it again later while holding behind the stronger towers and larger teams, but burst damage doesn't mean nearly as much in Dominion if you can't finish the job.

That's why what is needed is some source of sustained DPS that comes from AP. Don't limit the AP ratio to minions - give an auto-attack AP ratio against champions, even if it's in item form, like as a Malady upgrade.

EDIT: To put things more into perspective, at max CDR, Morgana gains just under 1 damage per second for every 3 AP she has. Sunfire Cape is considered a weak item for increasing your damage, but you would have to build over 120 AP to increase your dps by the same amount. So, for 2610 gold, you are getting roughly the equivalent of 3 Blasting Wands of dps (which costs 2580), plus all that armor and health. All this for what is generally considered a bad item.
Deathcap Jax FTW!

 
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Cauldrath ?? Senior Member
This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information
06-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElevenOfClubs View Post
Deathcap Jax FTW!
Why do people act like Jax actually builds AP besides by accident?

 
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.
Lopretni ?? Senior Member
This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information This user has accepted the summoners code, click for more information
06-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
Oh and plz quit bugging the ONE whole Riot employee who posts here with Grammar-Nazi stuff. Thx.
Well, let's be more specific. The one Riot employee who posts here who actually seems to be doing anything useful.

OT: I only think minions could have less starting MR and scale a little better later on, assuming their defensive stats change as the game goes on. Other than that, AP characters don't need any help pushing, save for perhaps characters like LeBlanc who aren't really made for laning in the first place, they're supposed to be melting faces. If that's the goal here, to make more characters able to bottom lane successfully, I'm all for it. You just have to be careful so that APs don't suddenly become these godlike pushers that cannot be outdone by any bruiser or AD.