One thing about Jax is that he has a crazy power trip.
Buff him a little and he's a god.
Nerf him a little and he's the worst champ in the game.
This wall of text will be what I think Jax needs for the next patch or whenever he'll be changed, and without a doubt he has such a low presence mid game and late game.
Now there are a lot of aspects I can cover so I'm going to add them in as I remember them, so starting with this. Hopefully this will answer Shurelia's questions to me about Jax and what does he need. (Has some ranting relating to me the player, and the game but for good reason and use)
Everyone from closed beta to now, or at least most of everyone has seen Jax's story, it is by far the best stories I have ever seen out of all the champions, he is just a total bad ass, and is now the Leader of the league as I recall. But is the leader of the league so incapable that he needs to be not only handicapped with his lamppost or hockey stick, but his base stats and ability to do what he does best? But the story doesn't effect ingame so lets move on to that. High council Reginald? lol, it's so ironic how I played closed beta Jax and Reginald recruited me to his team.
But before we start, as for heroes and support how Jax need's support, there are other heroes who could fulfill that role better then him and still do everything else fine, Jax is at a great disadvantage, how do I know? Because I've played Jax over a 1000 times, I know him inside out just as much as Big Mclarge Huge if not more. There are times where he's been overpowered but now that he's underpowered in my opinion now is the time to act for me to complain and give feedback.
If you go tank you still die pretty fast, and do no damage
If you go DPS you need attack speed and time to get your full dps going, and attack speed doesn't mean anything to your passive so you die before you even can get going
If you go AP you have slow attack speed and can't tank so you still die fast
If you go Hybrid, all of the above happens and you still die.
If you jungle, it's slow and all of the above applies
This skill is fine I don't agree with the AP nerf but maybe it's for the better for his raping late game
This skill is useless... Use empower to farm quickly at the start? What the hell are you gonna do with 30-60 dmg early, when you have an aoe stun and a chasing or running ability. This either needs to be buffed slightly or changed back to how it used to be as it always was because I find it ridiculously useless because nobody uses it, and there's a reason why. You won't even have the mana to support it, and even if you go for supporting mana everything else falls apart making him useless again.
I agree with the AP nerf, but you have to actually get hit to stun, and have people around. Casters will blow you up as they always have and should be able to but not as deadly as it should be. It's just ridiculous, you have to set things up with jax and it shouldn't be like that, because any other hard carry is ready to go.
Attack speed doesn't work on towers, before you can get the first rotation off you die, this has always been an issue but now it's even more of a hassle. You find yourself picking people off rather then dpsing normally, Jax is able to beat any champion 1v1, but with all these new champions like olaf or shen, he just can't take them because he doesn't have enough damage as he should have until late game and is heavily item reliant. Even with good items he still dies. I can't even carry in solo queue when Jax is a hard hybrid carry and is only strong early and ultra late game.
Nimbleness benefits him this is no doubt, but it doesn't matter if he dies in 2 seconds and can't catch anybody anymore. No point of getting mallet with all the ghost flash and escape, or immune heroes. He lack major survivability
He's suppose to have a ridiculously strong attack, but this is invalid because it doesnt apply in until late game. He can't do any damage at all without any items, his base attack is way to low or average compared to every other hero on how it says to be. You can't even focus hard on attack because you pretty much die from tanks who just go all tank items and still do average damage and you still die.
His AP damage is pretty decent but still not effective enough because of the AP nerf. The damage he takes from spells is ridiculous how he can die to any caster in 2 seconds.
Difficulty to Play
Pretty **** high now that he's underpowered, you have to do everything perfect one small mistake and your screwed high or low elo. Mistakes on other champions or carries are easily forgiven and forgotten with many 2nd chances.
Not only that Jax is underpowered and weak in a lot of aspects right now he even has an item that counters him. He is heavily reliant on items and still can't farm them at the right time even when you have like 5 kills, you will still be behind midgame which is natural but it's just way out of balance not in Jax's favor.
Jax is still a somewhat viable solo lane, even after all of this bashing he can give a few surprises who have no knowledge about Jax, and get first blood and turn the game in his favor. He still needs some serious tweaking.
Semi strong laner with a support, he NEEDS farm and if he's getting denied he's pretty much screwed, this applies to most heroes but applies the most to Jax how he needs it the most.
He can go straight to lizard and do it without smite, then straight to golem. This is fairly strong because he has good hp early and has dodge counter etc. But after that he farms way to slow and can't really gank unless the lane baits.
You can't initiate them, you can only pick people off. If you get focused without support you're screwed and it takes awhile for you to get going and it takes forever to kill sometimes.
When is Jax strong?
For Jax there isn't 3 categories of times, in my opinion Jax has 4 times of when he's strong or not however you guys want to look at it.
Surprisingly Jax is probably one of the strongest early game heroes even when he's meant to be a hybrid hard carry, this is because of his dodge and how much hp he has due to his passive, but his passive doesn't do him much good because there's not enough attack/ap dmg items.
You get your ult, you still farm slow because of slow attack speed, so you get attack speed but guess what? It doesn't go into your passive, rageblade takes a little while to farm and by then he still dies to fast because of the health max gain on each hit, because now he doesn't actually get hp from hits like life steal whether that was meant to be in there or not.
Even if you're doing good, you're still weak, You're a carry and in team fights if you get focused or don't have a good supporting team you're pretty much dead in 2 seconds even with dodge. Don't give me all this **** about oh you didn't have a good support, well there are some carries that jump in there and rape everyone without anything like xin, or tryn, or olaf, or a bunch of other carries. Ranged hero carries don't even need to worry about it, Jax's survivability and farm ability is way to low.
Ultra Late Game
By now you probably have rageblade and atmas and triple pot, and rape everyone. You still die pretty fast even with defensive mastery and such. You do massive damage but there's no point if you can't get it going before you die. Your life steal won't always save you because you probably won't have enough farm even at this point even if you're doing good.
In my conclusion what needs to be changes is, his passive, empower, survivability or damage or ability to farm. I'm not asking to buff them all majorly and make him ******ed, just one or the other, he needs to be able to fulfill one role effectively or be able to hybrid decently.
More to be added as I remember stuff, and answering questions etc.
Questions? Feedback? Suggestions? I got the info and advice and experience, I will give you an answer.
This is a good thread, seems like it'll go somewhere.
+1 and here is a link to my Jax thread.
Well I don't think that hes really that bad but could use a buff on his empower less mana maybe more damage? and his passive alot more health. I remember playing a game with an annie and I literally died in 4 hits by her, just got chopped up every time
I go tabi, rageblade, dancer, hextech gunblade and I can pretty much just rape most characters in game.
I do agree +1
yeahjax is most definitely UP. i mained him back when he was OP, then a nerf came and half his hp disappeared....i thought he needed to be nerfed, but not to that extent. i have seen people play well wih him and have good games, but not often. with manamune out now, people are gonna be saying that that will solve your mana problems, but thats 1500 gols that you have to take away from items like infinedge and rageblade. so yeah he does need a buff somewhere, but riot still has to be careful as to where, because if they buff anywher too much, then hes just going to be op like he was before...
This is a really important point, I'm not asking him to be buffed to much, it's just that he relies on masteries and runes to badly. He needs to be able to support himself without masteries or runes for the newer players instead of only being played one way with a good rune page and masteries and item build.
There is literally only one way for you to play him and when I play him that way I make Jax look OP and then Phreak looks at my records and is like OMGZ jax is to OP, I should copy his item build and nerf him!
Protoman should know what I mean considering he's responsible for Jax changes, so is shurelia I think.
Jax is way to difficult for newer to even average players or even experienced players. There is nobody in mid high to high elo or high premades that even use JAX.
NEVER have I seen a JAX in the past 500 games besides the ones I have been Jax.
They need to realize this and make him self dependent. I can understand the items but he's just a one way train.
The reason why he was OP is because at first I made him look OP, even now I make him look OP because I've played him a ridiculous amount, it's not being ignorant it's my self confidence with him and all that jazz.
Dyrus for Council!
on a serious note Jax really isn't bad, hes very fun. Numbers could use a tweak, possible change E so it's not rng, and remake W.
Nice Volty thanks for the reply.
Also Dryus how many games do you have with Jax just wondering how big the number is.
He is not fine when I can do so much better with other carries fulfilling the same role. Even when I get ridiculously fed or farmed I still lose because of survivability and such.
Comparing to yi, yi is a beast.
Okay, I'm just going to break this down quickly.
Jax has his strong points. However, he has his..not strong points? That doesn't seem game-breaking, that seems like character balance. He is not going to be strong all the time, in every situation. But what I read here is that you expect exactly that.
I also saw that he "can't farm", but you explain that fault to be because you feel obligated to jump enemies and pick off solo targets. That is a choice you have to balance - the gold for possibly capping off their straggler or reliable lane gold. I don't know any characters who can be an Assassin and be out of lane jumping people at the same time.
Okay, so Jax can kill almost anyone 1v1 - that would be in suit with his "Assassin" tag - but he can't kill everyone 1v1. So he is underpowered for not being the absolute most powerful 1v1 character in the game?
This entire post is just without a real... context. Yes, he's strong here - compared to what? And weak here - in reference to what similar characters? In what way does he lack, if he has very clear strengths, if not for only his weaknesses that balance him?
This turns into a "I want my character to be stronger" thread. Yes, it does. Everyone sees them or considers them. Hell, I like to play Malphite, would you like to compare ups and downs? But I accept his extremely unfocused abilities because they are the sum of that character - I know he doesn't do everything, and he very well shouldn't. I would love for a unifying stat but I play his highs and his lows the way they exist.
Yes, Jax used to be absurdly powerful - and that is a bad mental benchmark to use. You can remember being powerful all the time, but that's just how it is. I've sunk at least a hundred games into Shaco, I know the same highs and lows as an Assassin, but I don't, for some reason, want to be able to farm, too. I don't want everything, but all I could glean from this thread is that you do.
I understand this, but that's exactly why we're making this thread and providing good feedback on it. Like this post right here.
It wouldn't be good if all feedback was OH LETS BUFF JAX, it's hard to find a solution to balance him because even when he is balanced, I have found ways to make him look OP through the items.
Jax is greatly influenced through the items, but compared to other champions, other champions just fulfill the role so much easier.
Nobody really ever used atma's until phreak copied me and BigMcLarge to be honest as obnoxious as that sounds.
As for 1v1's he's a CARRY I shouldn't have to explain much more here. He counter's Melee with his dodge, but will usually lose to casters depending on players situations and items. In fights you can burst him way to easily now.
His weaknesses don't balance him really, all I really want is something done about his passive, because his passive is just so USELESS to me now, and he attacks way to slow.
and a bunch of other ranting stuff, yeah I do get your point.
your attack speed now stays up after attacking creeps to tower this patch. it wasn't mentioned in notes.
i would +1 this thread. if not for the fact that jax is not up . he is op unless being used by a noob, or season player who is just noob with jax .
learn to jax properly
and you will be the victor of 90% of your 1v1 fights early - mid - late and yes super late game fights
lol a junior member telling me how to play jax.
go flame somewhere else, I don't even have to bash you for this, the people around here would do it for me if not for me, just for the stupidly and ignorance coming from you.
I'm seeing so many posts about PD XD. I just cap out in AS runes, or grab 3 HP quints then cap out on AS runes, take up to the hp mastery in def, and the arm pen in off. My items almost never change with gunblade+tabi as core-tabi for minion counter procing and gunblade for lifesteal+op passive increase+excellant fallowup tool after leap. From there i go frozen mallet to keep people still, then rage blade, with 2 bloodthirsters add my hyper-end game. AS items are overrated on this build cause thats what the runes are for, so you can itemize entirely around his passive.
With that said.
Jax does suffer alot, and like any carry your on cleanup crew, but i agree, there are better champs for that. His issues arent so much that he dies too easily, its that he cant lock people down. Counter-attack solves this, but only if your taking alot of AA, which means you want to be forcing minion aggro as you chase. Having his counter-attack proc off spells would be an interesting insert, but it might require alot more programming then a simple fix.
His Q is solid, no change really needed, and the ap nerf is hardly even noticable outside of AP jax.
His W is very weird. A solid rework would to have it provide like a 3 second AS increase+bonus damage for the duration, which would give him excellant fallowup on leapstrike, plus good synergy with his ult. A slight MS boost might be applicable with/instead of the AS boost.
E is just one of those skills that you love and hate equally. A rework seems incredibly difficult, but this could be left alone as a "niche" skill similar to sword of divine being a "niche" item. Or at least give E pure dodge, so no matter what items he has or opponants, he will still get at least the dodge from his skill. As i read this, it seems like a solid choice.
R is just fun. With the reworks above, this sits in a very solid spot. Without, may need a tweak or 2, but still solid.
Passive is nifty, it lets him be just a flat damage king with uber hp. So many people build around crit on him, i find he works alot better with flat damage, as his passive scales much higher, and with some lifeleech, can go balls out in a teamfight, olaf style, minus the olaf uber ult, making cleanse required. Shurelia is currently working on jax, and she hates his passive, and wants to make him more into a physical heavy, so a suggestion would be to go AD=so many armor+MR. Good in place of his current, as it raises EHP, but still makes him vulnerable by having lower HP.
His biggest fallbacks arent so much item dependant, as thats with any carry, its more about his fallowup in teamfights. Jax cant run in until focus is set, whereas xin or olaf can initiate teamfights and still go about their business. This is how i can understand why shurelia hates his passive, as hes a fat wall of meat that still has to wait till a teamfight has been initiated.