Originally Posted by Skelith
LOL, Garen was an OP pos. This change is a good thing.
It's hard to say. Garen easily got dished out like nothing after 20 minutes of game time. Even when his builds were nearing completion near late game he became fairly useless against most other champions.
Garen has a very good early start since his W can stack him up to 25 MR/Armor immediately. And then reduced damage to allow him to take enough damage overall to silence and spin to win.
However, he always fell off late game. Even when stacking Garen with HP items he falls fast. And being literally only a melee champ(no ranged skills), he must get deep in a team fight to do anything. Risking his neck easy.
By late game he's quite useless. Not entirely useless as some other champions can be. But he goes from a high positive score of maybe 7 - 0 if doing well and ends match at 10 - 10 maybe. Because he begins to be targetted as one of the champions easily snaggable.
In reality, that silence was all Garen had. But there's more...
Spin To Win
Q it up
- I used to wish the spin gave Garen speed instead of the Q. It made more sense. Like Tazmanian Devil? Now it will.
- I used to wish the spin AD ratio was not so heavily low. While it did good to level it early game and become very strong early on.. it dropped off fast mid game. And was useless end-game. It's only purpose end-game was to get out of slows as a utility.
- Now that the spin will balance out with AD it will be good throughout game. And will be easier to not need to waste Q to speed up. There have been many times I wasted Q just to get the speed on the spin and get around with it fast enough.
- Now the spin will help land Garen more feed hopefully in team fights. And help actually CHANGE the outcome of team fights.
That Defense W...
- Now the Q still gives movement speed and the silence time is still there, but it lengthens over level up. So you have a boost in movement speed from 2 skills now. The E(Spin) and the Q(Silence).
- While the Q can still do some damage, it can silence and give speed so there's no downside here. Other than that the silence time is lower at lower level. That's not a problem. It's actually fair and more balanced now.
- My question would be, will the speed boost from Q and E work together to gain overall much faster movement speed while they are activated together? That'd be interesting and perhaps a little overpowering for chases. Just a little..
- I think Garen's Q should have as much range as Garen's Ultimate. That's just my opinion. Too many times people know Garen can and often will try to silence them. And since that silence requires being point-blank in the face of them they know how to manipulate a Garen to run into trouble and get caught up in a team gank.. While Garen may silence one.. it won't usually keep him alive.
- Garen's W used to be so pointless... However, it was so great in the very beginning. The 25 defense in the beginning and then the overall reduction of damage taken when active allowed Garen to secure a lot of early game ganks and chases. Definitely allowed him to survive being ganked from enemy junglers as well in solo top. But shortly after Lv.6-10 it becomes fairly weak and useless.
- Now the W will allow Garen to tank much better throughout the series of the match. Although Garen notably builds on HP items a lot... he quickly rose to being a champ with not enough defense to actually hold up his HP when focused even slightly late game. And Garen NEEDS his defense even as a fighter. He literally has no range. He needs to be able to survive long enough to do some form of damage and get out alive. One reason Garen gets picked off late game is because the ranged players notice he can't harm them without getting close enough for them to dominate him before hand.
- With the W giving defense to Garen, he should be able to pull off being useful late game. And for those who think Garen may of been deadly useful even late game before this patch were to come? You definitely saw Garen facing an inexperienced well underfed team being raped badly. Because in real game.. Garen did indeed fall off later game.
- This outright is a nerf to Garen in more ways than any. At least for early game. It is to help balance him out more.
- I have to argue a couple things though... Why does Garen not get an insta-refresh on his Ultimate and Darius does? Garen's ultimate is not half as powerful as Darius'. And it's actually not all that strong against most champs. And the fact that it does NOT do true damage makes it just that much weaker overall. Who wants an ultimate that is supposed to last hit? Do damage equal to... or less than any other champs Q,W,E offense skill. That is not really an ultimate in my opinion.
- I've been fed to a point in matches where my crit ratio is 70%+, my AD is 300+ and my normal attacks are doing nearly the same damage my ultimate is.
- Another thing... Garen's Ultimate is slow casting... Darius' ultimate always looks nearly instant. Too many times I've had my ultimate not even happen because it's interrupted or I over-click(?) to move somewhere and cancel it and lose a potential kill... Shouldn't be able to happen.
It seems to me more like Garen has been buff/balanced. Not nerfed. If anyone thinks he's been nerfed they're kind of dull minded.
I can agree on some fact that Garen is "OP". To the extent that he didn't die quick and could do damage early game. But being OP between Lv.1-7 is not a real OP champ. Because the matches don't revolve around the first 5 minutes of the game.
Now you want a real OP champ?
Let's example Vayne..
Too many **** times has everyone watched Vaynes feed their lane to the enemy and being weak and useless. And then out of no where suddenly late game Vaynes are owning it up. Effortlessly getting kill after kill. Are these Vaynes killable? Depends. If you can survive a Vayne long enough end-game maybe. But usually if a Vayne has its team with her.. She's doing aces. And effortlessly too. Where as people claim she's not "easy-to-use", I call bs on it because she **** well is not hard.