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My thoughts on the new Katarina. :(

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BuzzJack ?? Member
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08-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowWolf0189 View Post
Why did Riot go for sustained damage on an in-and-out assassin like Katarina?
Because her in and out tactic required getting a channel off. If it failed, she really didn't do much.

 
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Xx iMid xX ?? Senior Member
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08-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drevarius View Post
Yeah you are on target here - W is meant to add sustained damage but not a lot more early game burst. Auto attack + W spam should assist Katarina in longer engagements where she previously was just waiting for Q/E to come back up.
But in a normal team fight, they kill Kat first because of her ultimate. Happens in the actual Kat, and will happen in the new Kat. So spamming "w"... I don't think is a fair exchange for the old kat.

 
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Amarathval ?? Senior Member
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08-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drevarius View Post
Don't worry, I just went 15/1/5 in a PBE game
this doesn't really mean anything though because most the people on the PBE play like low elo scrubs >:[

 
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Drevarius Drevarius's Avatar ?? Designer
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3 of 7 Riot Posts
08-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowWolf0189 View Post
Why did Riot go for sustained damage on an in-and-out assassin like Katarina?
Basically she needed more diversity on her kit. Her focus is still on damage and mobility and burst - but now she has something to do between Q/E cooldowns. W is a part of her burst combo but it will come off cooldown much sooner than the other skills; running away will not always be the optimal play on a victim you didn't quite finish off with the burst.

 
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Utensil ?? Senior Member
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08-14-2012

Why the nerf on the cooldown of Shunpo?

 
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Drevarius Drevarius's Avatar ?? Designer
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4 of 7 Riot Posts
08-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xx iMid xX View Post
But in a normal team fight, they kill Kat first because of her ultimate. Happens in the actual Kat, and will happen in the new Kat. So spamming "w"... I don't think is a fair exchange for the old kat.
Assassins are tricky to play well - high risk vs. high reward. If you are caught out of position or you initiate as Kat against a well prepared enemy team you will need to change your strategy.

At the point where you know your combo can net you a kill/assist, you want to tear into the enemy team as quickly and brutally as possible so you can ult and chain multiple Q/W combo's on the enemy team which amounts to quite a lot of AoE damage.

 
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Gixia ?? Senior Member
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08-14-2012

The general consensus seems to be that, while Kat's sustain and late game did get better, her early and mid-game laning got worse. And, wasn't the (or at least one of the) original stated intentions of the changes to make her early game better? I think that's one of the big concerns right now.

 
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Cauldrath ?? Senior Member
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08-14-2012

So, I ran new Kat's numbers vs old Kat.

Base DPS increased by 50%, AP DPS increased slightly, AD DPS decreased negligibly

Conclusion: tanky dps Kat significantly buffed. Probably not the news assassin Kats wanted.

Remake: (single target damage)
Q
190+75 + (0.5+0.2) AP
8 second CD
33.125+0.0875 AP / sec

W
200+0.3 AP+0.6 AD
4 second CD
50+0.075 AP+0.15 AD / sec

E
160+0.4 AP
6 second CD
26.667+0.0667 AP / sec

R
600+1.75 AP+3.0 AD
50 second CD
12+0.035 AP+0.06 AD / sec

121.792+0.2642 AP+0.21 AD / sec

Old:
Q
200+0.35 AP + 0.8AD
7 second CD
28.571+0.05 AP+0.1142AD / sec

W
No damage

E
240+0.75 AP
6 second CD
40+0.125 AP / second

R
800+2.5AP+5AD
50 second CD
16+0.05 AP+0.1 AD / second

84.571+0.225 AP+0.2142 AD / sec

 
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Noxian Mercenary ?? Senior Member
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08-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drevarius View Post
Assassins are tricky to play well - high risk vs. high reward. If you are caught out of position or you initiate as Kat against a well prepared enemy team you will need to change your strategy.

At the point where you know your combo can net you a kill/assist, you want to tear into the enemy team as quickly and brutally as possible so you can ult and chain multiple Q/W combo's on the enemy team which amounts to quite a lot of AoE damage.
Fair points.

Now can we address Kat's early game? It has been proven constantly that it has been sent to the gutter, and she is pretty useless until she starts leveling W. Even more confusingly, I seem to recall Morello acknowledging Kat's horrid early-laning phase, and yet nerfing it.

 
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Drevarius Drevarius's Avatar ?? Designer
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5 of 7 Riot Posts
08-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ur little sister View Post
Any word on adjustments to the less burstyness (the requirement to cast Q before your ult means you can't pull your ult off against a laner who actually has positioning, unless you go EWQR or EQWR, which gives them the Q cast time as extra reaction time. This has utterly destroyed a couple of matchups, and just feels terrible on what I'm guessing is meant to be a burst assassin)?
A suggestion could be removing Q casting time (This would allow her to actually harass a handful ennemy laners, which you might be trying to avoid in the remake. Though if it turns out to be too much you could just shift more of the damage into the proc?)

Or possibly buffing her by removing healing reduction from her kit, so her ult at least doesn't have those visual indicators anymore? Because setting up ambushes used to be kind of fun.

Also, I'm making this arguement to non-riot employees, so it might be hypocrit not to make it towards you: how is stomping a game where most people are either lvl 5 summoners, or actually testing stupid stuff out like building attack speed Katarina to see if her attack animation doesn't screw up reassuring towards her viability?
The games I've played against whoever I deemed to actually be competent mid players have all so far shown that Katarina's lane matchups all got severely nerfed atm.

I don't expect anyone to be reassured from the results of one PBE game, that was meant to be light-hearted. However, I am very serious about us keeping a close watch on her balance.

The numbers we are at now are a result of our live balance team's testing - and they will be adjusted if necessary.

As for Q cast times - the response window for QEWR is very small - everything is instant after the Q cast and you can have already started the ultimate by the time the Q projectile arrives.