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[Solo Q Secrets #001] Surrendering Wins Games

 
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Ezrabar ?? Senior Member
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11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UODK View Post
Somtimes you have to lose to win.

As he stated, my time is valuable... I would rather Get 7-8 games in 3-4 hours, having surrendered 3-4 of them. Most surrender games are obvious... one lane fed hard early and we are sitting back at our inhib turret, down 10-15 kills @ 20 mins. GG and start over.

In the end I only get X time to play.... If I only get 3 games in.. and all of them are fighting an impossible battle for 60 mins, when i knew @ 20 we couldnt win.. im going to log off unahappy.. if I just surrender those off and come back to win 2 or 3 in response.. my time was better spent, more productive and I log out in a good mood.
It's just me but on some games like your example. I'd enjoy it if people tried after they believe it's over. @15 minutes I see just play stupid because they're done and I've turned games down 5-10 kills @ 18 minutes. Sometimes I feel like people should at least a last ditch effort to coordinate a team-fight/gank right before surrendering. Some match ups are definitely obvious but some you are going to lose the early game before the mid/late because that's your team comp.

I don't know. I guess just discussing with your team would be the best thing.

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ryzeonline ?? Senior Member
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11-07-2012

Thanks for the input Pogo...



Is this how you encourage interesting, creative thought in the LOL community?

It's cool -- ***** in the thread about how "horrendous" it is, whatever makes you happy


What I wrote is meant to be an experiment, to help others -- try it or don't, is fine with me.



P.S. Maybe you'd like a [hug] and someone who really appreciates you

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UODK ?? Senior Member
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11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
I stopped reading part way through. Some of this is horrendous.


1. You argue "some of the best players lose 55-65% of their games" then point out 3 professions players with win rates at 55-65%. If my win rate is 55%, I'm losing 45% of my games. If my win rate is 65%, I'm losing 35% of my games. A 65% win rate doesn't mean I lose 65% of their games. The best players in the world WIN 55-65% of their games, not lose.


2. If 3 people on your team wanted to surrender at the 20 minute mark, but the game drags on for 60 minutes (and you still lose), then the chances are pretty good that it's actually the negative attitude of the 3 people that wanted to surrender that caused the loss, not the two "try-hards" that refused to surrender a third of the way through the game. And why do you want to cite professional players when you talk about win-rates, but you ignore teams like CLG.EU that can lose early game really hard, turtle, and then make a comeback win late?
So I guess you should also go tell off all those pro teams that surrender....in tournaments.. that are for money... because "you could always come back!"

At some point, cutting your losses and getting a fresh start is the best thing. If @ 20 mins your down 5 - 18 in kills, 0-4 turrets and are pushed into your mid lane inhib turrett.. its GG 99% of the time. Sure their might be a 1% chance we make a comeback but the time spend the other 99% of the losses doesn't make up for that 1% win.

The reason that the good pro players dont get mad when they lose is because each individual game doesnt mean anything to them... it's about how they did in the "session" they played... How well did I do over the past 5 hours? If a game is lost, give it to them and start fresh. If it's a 50/50 then obviously you play, but when its totally 1 sided and it's all you can do to just turtle them off a turrett... its time to move on.

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Ezrabar ?? Senior Member
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11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UODK View Post
So I guess you should also go tell off all those pro teams that surrender....in tournaments.. that are for money... because "you could always come back!"

At some point, cutting your losses and getting a fresh start is the best thing. If @ 20 mins your down 5 - 18 in kills, 0-4 turrets and are pushed into your mid lane inhib turrett.. its GG 99% of the time. Sure their might be a 1% chance we make a comeback but the time spend the other 99% of the losses doesn't make up for that 1% win.

The reason that the good pro players dont get mad when they lose is because each individual game doesnt mean anything to them... it's about how they did in the "session" they played... How well did I do over the past 5 hours? If a game is lost, give it to them and start fresh. If it's a 50/50 then obviously you play, but when its totally 1 sided and it's all you can do to just turtle them off a turrett... its time to move on.
Actually you're definitely right about that. If you are seriously unhappy with the match and continue with it then it can put you into a tilt which is bad for any player.

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UODK ?? Senior Member
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11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezrabar View Post
It's just me but on some games like your example. I'd enjoy it if people tried after they believe it's over. @15 minutes I see just play stupid because they're done and I've turned games down 5-10 kills @ 18 minutes. Sometimes I feel like people should at least a last ditch effort to coordinate a team-fight/gank right before surrendering. Some match ups are definitely obvious but some you are going to lose the early game before the mid/late because that's your team comp.

I don't know. I guess just discussing with your team would be the best thing.

I hear you...

But even with a late game team comp(like clg.eu uses) if it's a landslide @ 20, even a late game team can't come back. Even if a surrender vote fails.. i don't rage or quit.. i keep trying my best, but 40 mins later I do think to myself(well that was a waste of the last 40 mins.. when I could been winning the next game).

Again, even if you think the games over @ 15, you play hard... 2 aces between 15-20 mins can erase a 10 kill lead to a tie... so yeah obviously keep playing! Even if you are down to a team, and in a team fight, you trade 3 for 5 and they end up with 2 people almost dead but get the ace... the game is still close and winnable, but I don't think THOSE are the types of games the OP is talking about. I think the games he is talking about is what happens 75% of the time(especially at low ELO) .. their is a CLEAR winner by the 20 min mark. IF their is.... let it be and start over.

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Ezrabar ?? Senior Member
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11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UODK View Post
I hear you...

But even with a late game team comp(like clg.eu uses) if it's a landslide @ 20, even a late game team can't come back. Even if a surrender vote fails.. i don't rage or quit.. i keep trying my best, but 40 mins later I do think to myself(well that was a waste of the last 40 mins.. when I could been winning the next game).

Again, even if you think the games over @ 15, you play hard... 2 aces between 15-20 mins can erase a 10 kill lead to a tie... so yeah obviously keep playing! Even if you are down to a team, and in a team fight, you trade 3 for 5 and they end up with 2 people almost dead but get the ace... the game is still close and winnable, but I don't think THOSE are the types of games the OP is talking about. I think the games he is talking about is what happens 75% of the time(especially at low ELO) .. their is a CLEAR winner by the 20 min mark. IF their is.... let it be and start over.
Definitely makes sense. For me it has to be a literal landslide to get me there. (But that's just me). But all in all it's better for your team mates to move on even if you have this type of mindset. The higher solo queue players have definitely found a good balance in this to be where they are.

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ryzeonline ?? Senior Member
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11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UODK View Post
So I guess you should also go tell off all those pro teams that surrender....in tournaments.. that are for money... because "you could always come back!"

At some point, cutting your losses and getting a fresh start is the best thing. If @ 20 mins your down 5 - 18 in kills, 0-4 turrets and are pushed into your mid lane inhib turrett.. its GG 99% of the time. Sure their might be a 1% chance we make a comeback but the time spend the other 99% of the losses doesn't make up for that 1% win.

UODK - Thank you.

Thank you SO much.

That is exactly what I was getting at, and you said it better than I would've.

Respect, I'm gonna add you if you don't mind

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ExecutionerKen ?? Senior Member
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11-07-2012

Just because you want to surrender, it doesn't mean other people will think the same

Just because the other 2 guys are try-hard, doesn't mean you should throw the game because you want to play the next one.


This guide, while is good in theory, doesn't work in real life. Not only it is too ideal, but also misleading.

Also, the best players only win ~60% of the games due to many reasons. For example, they are playing against other best players as well, so their win rate should be much lower compare to playing with the new or bad players. They also like to troll every once in a while, even in ranked, because when you get to so high up in ranked, games are more for fun compare to going for higher rank.

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ryzeonline ?? Senior Member
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11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezrabar View Post
Hey this is the guy trying to coordinate the gameplay review post from earlier.

I can definitely see the pluses in this post but there definitely needs to be balance (which has already been addressed).

I should definitely improve myself on surrenders.

Excellent, Ezrabar --

That attitude will take you far, it's one I aim to have myself.


P.S. I responded to your other post - love it

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ryzeonline ?? Senior Member
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11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UODK View Post
Again, even if you think the games over @ 15, you play hard... 2 aces between 15-20 mins can erase a 10 kill lead to a tie... so yeah obviously keep playing! Even if you are down to a team, and in a team fight, you trade 3 for 5 and they end up with 2 people almost dead but get the ace... the game is still close and winnable, but I don't think THOSE are the types of games the OP is talking about. I think the games he is talking about is what happens 75% of the time(especially at low ELO) .. their is a CLEAR winner by the 20 min mark. IF their is.... let it be and start over.

UODK is like in my brain.

EXACTLY what I was getting at.

On top of all that, I'm not "making a point" or "saying whats right" --


I'm simply proposing an experiment that may improve someone's gameplay experience.

Try it and get back to me

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