Originally Posted by Statikk
I'd like to wait a bit before jumping to any conclusions just yet.
It's extremely difficult to gauge potential optimal jungler gold because:
1) success in the jungle varies drastically depending on the game
2) the current "meta" still caters farm toward laners
For example, junglers are almost always the top gold in the game for the first 5 minutes due to the sigil buffs, but due to the current meta they lose access to that gold source very quickly (after the first clear).
Additionally, it's still normal practice for laners to poach stuff from their jungler (though it has become more difficult to do so). Do you ever wonder why players refer to lane poaching as a jungle "tax" (negative connotation) while on the other hand mid taking wraiths is something that is normal / acceptable?
Junglers are still expected to support the map rather than make the best decision for themselves at any given moment during the course of the game. I mean you guys kind of summed it up as "...after 11 minutes...nobody really lets you farm the jungle."
My point is the way we are used to playing the game tends to push junglers towards being poor and feeling like a "support."
So in sum, I'd like to wait and see if there are legitimate strategies where the jungler is allowed to be more selfish and succeed. If it turns out we got the gold values wrong and the goals aren't being met, then we'll look to fix it, but I think we need to at least make a concerted effort to see the different possibilities.
the meta has nothing to do with the op's point
you want the junglers to not camp lanes for gold and experience yet you make the jungle worth less gold and a slower clear so less exp
and then you proceed to make it so there is only 1 viable option to start with as a jungler which is a machete forcing you to be even farther behind in gold
and then we have to buy a ton of pots because of the buffs making us lose more gold
and then you proceed to make oracles last for 5 minutes making it not nearly as efficient where we must drop 250 gold for 5 minutes of gank time losing even more gold
And last but not least you add alot of new damage items into the game and remove essential tanky items making junglers easier to kill
Overall the jungler has an extremely small impact on the game along with a lower gold generation
One or the other Statikk