@Red - Solid Idea for Hybrid Item - Combine it from brutalizer and haunting guise - Page 5

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@Red - Solid Idea for Hybrid Item - Combine it from brutalizer and haunting guise

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jalb3rt

Senior Member

04-26-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xypherous

This generally makes these split penetration items difficult to cost correctly, as they must provide more flat phys pen and magic pen in total but this means their premiums must be crazy high to be effective.

How about an item with Unique Passive: You gain X% of your Armor Penetration as Magic Penetration, or vice versa? Assuming it got close to a 1:1 ratio, this would at least help minimize the gap in effectiveness of two penetrations on a hybrid character vs. one penetration on a pure AP/AD character.

Alternately, just unite ArPen and MPen as one stat.

Edit: Possibly better worded would be gain X% of your Armor Penetration effects, thus granting you both flat pen and % pen conversions.

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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

04-26-2011

Quote:

I was thinking the same thing. As long as it only worked on items and not runes . . .

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Khunlaan

Junior Member

04-27-2011

Whats wrong with having flat pen build into % pen? Flat pen is good early game, % pen is good late game.

Having flat pen that builds into % would be a boon to hybrids as they won't have to sell the flat pen as it becomes useless, instead it builds into an item that is overall more useful... even if the total % pen isn't as efficiant on gold as VS or LW, you got the benefits of flat pen early and % pen late without having to sell items.

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CR1F3N

Member

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04-27-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xypherous

This is *very* true and you are absolutely correct. However, flat penetration typically is used early game to pierce the base armor and base magic resistances an opponent has before items. The goal of flat penetration is to generally increase your burst before the opponent can amass the gold for many defensive items (or to counter their first real defensive item.)

Countering multiple items is generally in the realm of % penetration items as they'll scale better once the opponent has multiple defensive items. A hybrid % penetration item, as you've said, wouldn't need to be as high to equal a pure phys equally % penetration because of how split defenses push down the opponent's ability to mitigate your damage with gold, as you've said.

However, since the OP mentioned using brutalizer and haunting guise to build up to it, this doesn't quite work to fill the role of a % pen item because of a stats issue. Changing from flat penetration to % penetration might be a little odd, since you would effectively "lose" stats, but if you didn't take off the flat penetration, the item would feel bad because it would effectively be anti-synergistic with itself due to how % penetration reduces the effectiveness of your flat penetration.

It wouldn't feel necessarily weird it going from flat penetration to % penetration. It actually feels more natural a way to build in my mine and seems to synergize quite well. Early game you want the spell pen and armor pen flat later in the game(by the time you combine them) you get percent instead which is much more useful.

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Xypherous

Technical Designer

3 of 4 Riot Posts

04-27-2011

The reason that it feels weird to me is imagine a case where you are doing *really* well and crushing the opposing team and going 5-0. Upgrading actually hurts your penetration when you upgrade from flat to percentages for a short time.

It's similar to the Sheen and Lich Bane case, where upgrading to Lich Bane too early causes you to lose damage on the proc. It's like 'What? Come on. Really?' Since it's not immediately obvious whether it would be optimal to upgrade the item or not, that's why going from strictly flat to strictly % penetration on the item would feel weird. For example, if no one on the other team is buying any form of MR, upgrading the item would lower your damage. In general, it's odd when you don't want to finish an item 'too fast.'

I admit that there are several items in our game that have this problem (Catalyst, Sheen, to a much lesser extent all our G/5 items) but it nonetheless feels odd.

(And yes, Catalyst and Sheen are being looked at to remove this problem.)

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qTmBhM2let12d4RT

Senior Member

04-27-2011

Bump for justice

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joshiez

Senior Member

04-27-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xypherous

(And yes, Catalyst and Sheen are being looked at to remove this problem.)

Out of curiousity, why Catalyst? It seems pretty straightforward to me. If you have a Catalyst, you want to upgrade it ASAP to 'grow' your RoA as quickly as possible, or to gain great MR/Survivability... Because of the cost (meaning farm time), I can't think of a plausible scenario in which you would want to skip upgrading catalyst in lieu of something else.

-1

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Xypherous

Technical Designer

4 of 4 Riot Posts

04-27-2011

Catalysts' passive is ridiculously awesome and undervalued for sustain, especially in roaming or solo-top cases.

Often times, if you are solo top, the correct choice is to *not* upgrade Catalyst even if you have the gold, in order to take advantage of the massive sustain advantage that it grants you. It's a factor in why RoA similar isn't as popular as it could be the more competitive you get, simply because holding onto Catalyst's passive can save you one or two base trips in most scenarios.

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GhostDieM

Senior Member

04-27-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xypherous

So just make a few new % based hybrid items that build into a hybrid double % pen item