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Jungle is almost as bad as support now...

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imweasel09 ?? Senior Member
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10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumblerumble View Post
well if you got as much gold as a solo lane in the jungle that'd be slightly op, you are relatively a lot safer in the jungle than you are in a lane
You realise that's how it worked for all of season 1 and it wasn't an issue right?

+15
 
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Nirc ?? Senior Member
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10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post
The jungle provides enough farm, if your team doesn't take it all the time.
Gank junglers are still awesome in solo queue.

Sure, in the competitive scene it moved to support junglers a little bit (take 2 g/10 items and build aura items and utility for your team). But solo queue and premades are way different.
That's the problem. Your team is supposed to take it, because they're better with it. The jungler is essentially another support. Wolves and wraiths belong to mid, and golems belong to bot. Usually, you'll be able to take them because the lanes are busy with their lane, but if the lanes ever want them, you should give them up. If I get the opportunity when I play mid, I take the creeps, and if I'm the jungler, I let them have them.

Also, all tanky solo queue junglers take 2 gp/10s

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iainB85 ?? Senior Member
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10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsionicApe View Post
So what you and everyone in this thread are saying, is that there are still players that somehow feel they need to be the hero, their ego is tied into them being the best player on the team, and they would rather lose than play a champion that is secondary somehow in their perception to another player?

And this is the source of junglers being placed into the tanky support role, because no one else will do it? And you compare the problem to support? I'm just making sure I am reading your complaint right...

I jungle because when I do I know that wards will be placed where I want them, since a significant portion of soloqueue still falls into that original category I mentioned. The fact that farming junglers are out of favor at the moment, and that tanky support junglers are both efficient in their builds and efficient team members has everything to do with the majority of statistics.

Having said that, I played with an excellent Shaco the other day, who was balanced out by the rest of the team that was happy to build around him...
No, due to the current meta the tanky/initiate jungle is every easy to pull off, but doing it in another lane is much more risky and hard to pull off. It's due to the terrible state of top, and how mid and bot are locked into what they are.

+6
 
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Astoundment ?? Senior Member
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10-02-2012

I personally don't hate support junglers. If riot wishes to extinct support junglers then they should bring back season 1 jungle. Support junglers dont have the power to clear the old jungle as great as a shyvana or udyr or lee and will fall behind. S2 jungle is too friendly.

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Macguffin ?? Senior Member
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10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsionicApe View Post
It's about context.

Once in a blue moon you will get a game in solo queue where your teammates know that not dying is more valuable than chasing kills.

When you have a game that has gone on 20 minutes with five or less total kills (on both sides combined) then you will understand why an efficient support jungler is valuable, just like how dragon becomes much more important as overall kills decreases.
But that was kind of my point. Despite nearly constant lip service about wanting to have more options available for players Riot seems to have bent over backwards to make only the current meta-game a valid tactic. I used to play jungle all the time (and at least normals and a few ranked). Then it became obvious that by far the superior choice was 100% a support jungle around the same time Top became a pick/counterpick unfun **** waving contest between broken characters. So I abandoned ranked entierly, then normals, now I play mostly a bot game a day just to get an IP bonus to try out new character hoping Riot will get its head out of its rear and give players more options.

The 'feed the carry' meta game has sadly gotten so bad and so SAFE that even the junglers, who are supposed to be an X-factor by virtue of not being seen all time, are now relegated to support because ganking is useless.

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iainB85 ?? Senior Member
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10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by imweasel09 View Post
You realise that's how it worked for all of season 1 and it wasn't an issue right?
In season 1 jungle was a JUNGLE and only certain champions could clear it.

In season 2 jungle is just a farm fest where lanes go to clear camps with easy between minion waves to get an edge on their opponent, while the jungle just becomes another CC bot.

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iainB85 ?? Senior Member
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10-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macguffin View Post
But that was kind of my point. Despite nearly constant lip service about wanting to have more options available for players Riot seems to have bent over backwards to make only the current meta-game a valid tactic. I used to play jungle all the time (and at least normals and a few ranked). Then it became obvious that by far the superior choice was 100% a support jungle around the same time Top became a pick/counterpick unfun **** waving contest between broken characters. So I abandoned ranked entierly, then normals, now I play mostly a bot game a day just to get an IP bonus to try out new character hoping Riot will get its head out of its rear and give players more options.

The 'feed the carry' meta game has sadly gotten so bad and so SAFE that even the junglers, who are supposed to be an X-factor by virtue of not being seen all time, are now relegated to support because ganking is useless.
Well said, I totally agree.

I stopped caring about winning and just play the champ I want to now... but it still sucks knowing when I play a great Kha'Xin (for example) and go 7/1 early game, that when we are still losing late game we probably would've easily won if I had just picked Amumu and fed other lanes instead.

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Thunder Oak ?? Senior Member
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10-02-2012

Bump

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CrystalisX ?? Senior Member
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10-02-2012

Ahh, but what you don't realize is that junglers and supports take the most skill and knowledge to play. AP Mids, ADC have their items determined for them from champ selection. Their roles are mechanical in play and easily can be done by bots. Support and jungle however are the ones that need to know all aspects of the game, each lane, when to gank/countergank, farming jungle and counterjungling. Warding/counterwarding and all with gp10 items. In bot lane, most of the kills are started by the supports. In Mid and Top lane most of the kills are because of jungle ganks. Face it, throughout the laning phase, 90% of the plays made by either team are a direct result of the support and jungler. Now who wouldn't want all that glory??

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quasistellar ?? Senior Member
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10-02-2012

what I really don't like about the current jungle is that it has so much control over top lane. Level 2 ganks all ****ing day.

+8

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