Think our point is that those never get played in the jungle as they're OUTCLASSED by the tanky supports.

I agree with everything said. Not much income in the jungle to be had. The game is more about ganking than farming (at least in solo queue). Whatever lanes get an edge are allowed to just snowball out of control. Not worth it to sit around and farm jungle all day, especially with the terrible income it provides.

Jungle = support 2.0.

I main jungle and i actualy think you dont ALWAY need to have a champ with kit like maphite, skarner, mumu etc.... It does depens on what your team picks, if your top is like sing or malphite or any big tank you can chose champ like noc, xin, hecarim its just about fitting with the team and ofc feeding your lane, because a fed top/mid/bot is better late game than the jungle.

You don't NEED them. That wasn't the point. The point is that junglers who can function off of two GP10's (philo/hog) and still be very powerful are at a huge advantage over carry type junglers who need a lot of farm to be effective - which the jungle doesn't provide.

This is why junglers like Amumu, maokai, skarner and many others have come into flavor. All they need is two GP10 items and they can give the rest of their jungle/buffs to their laners and still be incredibly effective with minimal items/farm. If their ganks do not work out and they do not become fed, they can still be very powerful as they don't need a lot of farm or kills to be effective.

As a main jungler, are you okay with the statement you just made: "A fed mid/top/bot is better than a fed jungler." ? I personally feel if the game were balanced, a fed anything should be equally useful (taking strait up support out of this equation for a moment)... but then I guess, if you view jungler as just another support, that's pretty accurate.

must... bumpp....

Quite frankly, people avoid jungling because jungling is difficult relative to laning, and being a mediocre jungler is a lot more obvious than being a mediocre laner. If you do nothing but farm all day as a laner, no one notices. If you do nothing but farm all day as a jungler, the QQ comes hard and fast.

Also, the fun in any role isn't the amount of gold you gain. It's the player vs player interaction, of which the jungle has a lot of.

Edit: For the record, I main junglers.

Jungle is a glorified support. Just look at the builds people... most involved 2 gp10s... then some tanky shet... You only build damage in some situations (if u are ahead for example) or on some VERY specific champions. This is the main reason I LOATHE jungling. I feel it's not rewarding enough

Off topic. Fun of jungling != main issue. Fun of jungling is a side effect. But to respond to your 'fun factor' mr main jungle.... Why are all the players that had fun with master yi, nocturne carry, shaco carry, kha'zix to a lesser extent(he's still new, people are still trying and failing to make this work) and so forth punished for wanting to main these junglers because they find them fun vs you finding the others fun?

And I'm sorry it's not about farming all game(which is a very counter productive argument, since the entire gaming is about farming all game with player interaction here and there) but why jungling CANNOT farm it up to 6? Why is lee sin, udyr, shyvana, maokai, nunu, and others who try to gank ALOT pre-6 onpar gold wise with a warwick who farmed the entire early game to 6?

Shouldn't that warwick come out of the jungle at 6 ready to wreck some faces and have a good item lead on a jungler who doesn't have kills but only assists? Why is he punished for it instead of rewarded for his playstyle and lack of earlygame agression via ganking?

Support junglers have their role. Give the BUILT-FOR-JUNGLING junglers have theirs, instead of punishing them for it.

That, or put caster minions gold to 4gold for a few patches and see the reaction, I'm sure EVERYONE will be A-okay with that idea... /sarcasm

I don't think that the tanky support jungler is the only way to win. Check out this list of highest win rate champs in platinum: http://www.lolking.net/charts?region...e&range=weekly

Rengar
Fiddlesticks
Evelyn
Shaco
Skarner
Xin Zhao

Now, some of these get played in lane, but all those names are more than capable of jungling and dealing, ahem, tons of damage. Skarner is the only one you'd really consider a tanky initiator kind of jungler, and he's certainly not toothless on the damage front.

If you go over to the most popular jungler matchup chart at:
http://www.lolking.net/charts?region...p&range=weekly

We see a nice mix of roles getting commonly played:
Tanky Initiator - Skarner, Amumu, Maokai, Udyr, Nautilus
Assassin - Shaco, Evelyn, Nocturne, Jarvan IV
Invader/Duelist - Lee Sin, Shyvana, Dr. Mundo

I really don't feel bad about jungle balance right now. There are lots of viable options and you can play it in many playstyles.

One effect I think you're feeling is that top laners just love first picking squishy damage champions, at least at my elo, and that pushes the jungle player to grab something tanky because their team needs a tank. This is not really a game balance issue, it's an annoying community issue.