Originally Posted by Dardstar
Ok so 32 pages latter is probably not the best place for a counter argument, but I enjoy talking on this subject as long as both parties are reasonable and neither just dismisses the others argument.
That out of the way, I have something against your 'ZERO male champions are sexualised' Statement. Sure you go on to say that some of the common examples such as trynd looks like a rhino but you discount a lot of what 'sexualised' actually means.
Lets start of with something that I think you would consider to be a sexualised male: Your typical male model/stripper that appears in any film or tv show that wants to show a male stip club. The problem with this version of sexualised is that it is the male concept of a sexualised female transplanted onto the male figure. Its not a females depiction of what they find sexy. In the same vein a female wearing a bikini and an a male wearing speedos don't really fit into the same category of 'sexy'.
However lets take another icon from tv that I have on good authority is 'sexy': Dean winchester from supernatural. He is a somewhat over-sexualised picture of a male, but doesn't fit into your definition of 'sexualised'. An in game example of this is superm.... er.. I mean Jayce, He has a sterotypical muscle-bound frame, shoulders about a meter apart and is "Armed with wit and charm", no matter how hard I tried I could never match up to Jayce as an image of what a male should look like, the same way a female would have a hard time matching up to what Cait may represent, If anything I think I would have a harder time of it.
So I believe your definition of sexualised is skewed towards females, and some examples of what I would count as male sexualisation would be:
-Darius (age or not he is still in damn good shape)
-Draven (while his direct style, such as his beard leaves something to be desired he isn't 'ugly)
-Gangplank (you really think 30 is to old to be sexy?)
Now a lot of these people you mentioned and brought up as 'not sexy because of X' but I believe some of your reasoning to be false, your main point was style, for example lee sin is somewhat sexualised but since it fits into the whole monk thing its kind of a pass, by dint of this a lot of females should be given a pass, for example:
She is a plant, frankly if she was naked it would suit her better.
Same as zyra I think the only reason she wears clothes is cause it would shock people if she didn't, I'm guessing when she was found with the noxian woodcutters she was naked.
Her thing is deception, what a better way to deceive someone then hey look at my clones breasts while I stab you in the back
And most of the overly sexualised females wouldn't find the need for armour anyway since they are mages or something of the ilk, hell Fiora is a duellist, while yes she is sexualised, she is wearing more armour then most duellists would wear anyway. And look at brand while sure he is made of charcoal he is wearing pants and nothing else.
While I do disagree with you, I do agree with you on some points as well, for example I think everyone can agree Sejuani needs to rethink her wardrobe.
And finally What your alternative? I don't really want to play bob or Jane with a beer gut from down the street in league of legends, even stereotypical female soldier #5 is kind of boring. And there is only so many fully armoured females you can do before you run out of the archetype: It would be weird playing leona if she was a squishy ranged mage.
First. thank you for being respectful. It's a breath of fresh air to see someone offer a counterargument that isn't condescending and/or flat out aggressive.
I think you misread the line about "ZERO males are sexualized." I stated that that is NOT the argument I wanted to make. My definition of sexualized is a character who is designed with the intent of enticing the player. That's why Fiora is sexualized (she is covered, but her pose is all about showing off her ass), and Tryndamere is not. Tryndamere is shirtless, but he is a berserker. He is enraged, he is not enticing at all. Also, he is grotesquely muscular.
There are plenty of examples of sexualized males in other mediums. I was in Vegas last years, and there were posters for 4 different male revues plastered all over town. Vampire Diaries and True Blood are all about fanservice. I'm not asking for a male in a speedo. I'm asking Riot to respect both genders equally by using the same design philosophy for both of them.
Whether a male is good looking and whether or not he is sexualized are two different things. Darius is in shape, sure, but he isn't contorting his body to accentuate his features. He dresses practically for a battlefield. The player may or may not be attracted to him, but he good looks are completely secondary to his menacing looks. At the same time, there is not a single woman in this game that isn't attractive by those standards. They are all good looking. But only the ones that make a point to show off their assets are the ones I define as sexualized. It just happens to be almost all of them. Irelia shows off cleavage, but I don't count her as sexualized because I don't think he shoved her chest out in an unnatural way. Pose have a lot to do with it.
The section I talk about age was not about saying old people aren't sexy. Again, the theme of the post was showing have the two genders are treated differently from a design perspective. The entire point of that section was to illustrate that they will make a male champion of any age, and they don't make female champions past the age of 30. Gangplank is middle-aged. Sure, he can still be sexy, but he does look older than any female champion in the game, and he has at least two skins that make him look over 50.
All the other guys on the list just happen to be good looking. They aren't sexualized unless they pose in a way, or dress in a way, that draws attention to their fine bodies.
That's why Zyra is sexualized. She could be walking around naked like Eve and it wouldn't necessarily matter, but her pose is very much designed to be enticing. Nidalee isn't the worst offender, I'll admit, but I definitely think her French Maid skin has sexual intent. LeBlanc is a great character, but using *** as a weapon is something exclusive to female champions. It's also appropriate for Ahri, but whether or not it fits the character is irrelevant. They could make male characters with lore that allows them to be sexy, too, but they don't.
Riot has already demonstrated that they are capable of creating engaging characters that aren't sexualized. Default Diana is fantastic, and her she is well received as a champion. Irelia has a pilot skin that was fairly popular got a while. A real pilot, and not a stripper parody. It's great.
My suggestion was a Baba Yaga inspired champion, but they can draw inspiration from anywhere. Maleficent is a mega popular Disney villain. Ursula is widely celebrated, and she's fat! /gasp
I just want to push Riot to challenge themselves, to make more interesting choices, and to be fair to both genders. Graves could have been a female outlaw who dressed the same way, been just as old, and looked just as gritty, and I bet you anything people would still have played her. Why is that acceptable for a man and not a woman?
Thanks again for being respectful. Upvoting you just for that.