Originally Posted by IronStylus
Holy **** that was a lot of well composed, extremely well thought-out points and a lot of data to back it up. I very much salute you! This is the stuff that's actually super useful for people like me in a position to help define our body types. I love this information and this amount of it because I can look and be like.. "Oh hey, I think I see where we can fill in some gaps!" You've actually saved me some work, and I owe you a coffee.
Funny thing is that a very nice young lady came and talked to me on the floor of the finals about this very same issue. She made similar points which I.. ya know.. agreed with, like I tend to on these subjects. That said, I don't think I can possibly address the entirely of this pose aside from stating what I've stated before. I believe we need to have breadth, depth and contrast in our characters. We need to have archetypal characters and non-conventional. This goes the same for body types, in this particular case, female body types.
Recently I've been doing some core exploratory work on our champions, past and present. I've developed an even more concrete belief that we need to vary female forms as our game angle requires pretty drastic differentiation in proportions between characters, especially females, to make them truly read as different. Right now, on paper, many of our females read differently, but when plugged into game angle they read as very similar body types. Diana, though having a pretty curvy lower body (larger thighs) and trimmer upper body with smaller breasts still looks in the same general category as Syndra though she's pretty overall standard voluptuous. My bad there. I might have pushed proportions on Diana even further. In fact, I'd like to go back to Diana and push proportions. I think we've standardized our females far too much, producing mainly costume changes. I really want us to focus on stylizing our females as much as we do with our males.
Make no mistake, this is something we have our eye on. I had a discussion with our Art Director about this issue just the other day. We want that barbarian woman who can smash any guy she might encounter, we want us to get the spindly tank-girl type who's far less exposed, we want utilitarian, we want majestic, we want creepy, we want it all. We also do want sexy, in all it's variations.
You also brought up something in there interesting about Varus. He is one of the only examples we have of a different take on males. We tend to make our males of sort of three types. Athletic, Heroic, or Hulk. So, Singed, Garen, and Mundo respectively. That generalization but there you have it. Varus hits a great sweet spot. He's quite androgynous, a bit more anime archetype. He's sleek, trim and mildly feminine, but dang is that ever sexy as far as I’m concerned! Basically, anything Riot Taco Storm can cosplay as is something I'd really love to have more experiments like.
I’m not quite sure I’ve hit on all or any of your points aside from providing you an assurance that we’re taking a hard look at our champions and some stuff is going to change as we go. As always I’d love to keep this conversation going and see what more points come up in this thread. I apologize for not hitting everything but I’ve just gotten back from the finals which has been a rigorous thing today to say the least. I’m a little hug-drunk right now.
I really, REALLY appreciate all the hard work and analysis you put into this. It has certainly not gone unnoticed! This is information that I like to act on and I thank you for it!
I'll try to hit on more points in smaller doses.
Honestly, I gotta say, this is the best post I've ever read on these forums. OP, you have no idea how thankful I am for this, that goes for IronStylus as well!
I've tried pointing this kind of thing out for a long, long time, but like you said, I just get pushed down by other people. The worst thing is there's comments such as "You're just jealous", "There's plenty of good-looking male champions", "Deal with it" or even "Don't play if you don't like it" As if these type of characters (mostly referring to the fetish-themed skins) were something normal to every good game, or even absolutely acceptable. I know they're common, but by no means are they necessary.
Another thing is the comparison in men to female, it's true, honestly most girls aren't after fetish-themed skins or flirty champions. If anything, girls prefer men who are well-dressed and charming. But if you're going to do it for the female champions, you should do it for the men too. I recently found someone who came up with a skin idea for "Unprepared Garen." While I would normally say, it's way too obvious that this skin idea is way too sexualized, you look at the female skins (including defaults) and it actually seems like something completely normal.
Another thing I've always anticipated was a female monster, back from when Anivia was the only one, I remember looking at champions like Cho' Gath or Kog' Maw and hoping one day we'd get a female like that. One day, they announced Shyvana, a half dragon female to be joining the League. Sadly, I got my hopes up way to high, only to be let down at the sight of the actual splash art for this.. champion. Basically a human female, only with blue skin. Another Evelynn, to me. Not to mention, all of her skins show her as a normal human caucasian female, though I do give kudos for the amazing armor on her purple skin (can't recall the name..).
When Kha'Zix's art came out for the first time, I posted a comment asking if it would be a female because we have no female monster champs, mostly as a joke, only to get a reply from Morello himself stating something like "Well, just because we don't have any neon pink monster champions, doesn't mean we need one either." Which was pretty harsh, considering I thought Morello had brought some good champion ideas to the League, I actually lost quite a bit of respect for him there. Ironically, though, he got a lot of replies from people saying "If there was a neon pink monster, I'd insta-buy him even with RP!"
So, basically, I'm happy someone had the guts to pull this topic out seriously, mindful of all the possible incoming downvotes. And, of course, reading IronStylus mention a Barbarian female champion who could crush her opponents made me very happy, and proud!
I do hope one day girls will be more respected in this game, when it comes to champion design, not to mention, Riot censors the word "s-e-x" in the forums, but accentuates it visually in-game. Hopefully, one day there will be a nice fix to the female champions, I'm not saying make them less sexy, just make their outfits actually make sense, at least. And maybe eventually there will be more to choose from for girls who are looking for female characters with strong personalities and decent clothing, or just a hot guy to play :P