Yes. With runes around the corner and magic pen items and another unnecessary buff...

Face melting time!

I just used your guide. Not bad. facemelter indeed.

Especially with the buff to his level 1 and 2 primordial burst. His early game is suddenly extremely deadly. O_O 100 extra damage at level 6 is no trivial matter, no trivial matter at all, especially when at that point enemies' MR is practically nonexistent - one exhaust empties it.

so ive been playing veigar for about 100 games now and there are a few things that have been brought to my attention.

1. early game health is a bit of a problem. (1-5) sure a smart veigar should be ok most games unless the other team knows who you are. when you get focused between those lvls it becomes more a challenge of keeping your health topped off then it is last hitting. 1 stun in a slightly wrong place will kill you. Not saying this is too much of a problem but i have seen some nasty gank combos early game.

2. I saw you will be updating your items but what would be nice to see when you do update it is a advanced item list of lets say 3 or 4 sets. Lots of guides tend to put 1 or 2 sets and do not even complete the full 6 slots. Maybe we could even brainstorm some good counter builds for different situations. Not to lose the focus of the full force ap build but to expand options to keep your veigar deadly no matter what the matchup.

3. The elixir is something im torn about. yes it is alot of ap for only 300g but its only 3 minutes. Sure you can do alot in 3 minutes but is it worth the 300g long term? It would be good to get a little more of a backround as to why you buy them when you do and how they change your gameplay if you do not pick them up.


Thanks in advance,

Isamaru

P.S. Still the best guide for veigar in my opinion. Keep up the good work. =)

Haha, don't worry, I plan on addressing all of these! The biggest problem is that I wrote the guide while runes were available. Without runes, Veigar's playstyle is quite different. It makes last hitting more rough, early game slower, and him just do less overall damage.

Also, when I wrote this the builds I listed were the only builds I felt were strong. There were other builds, but not of enough strength to mention. With the store coming out, runes, and a ton of new items, I'm going to be playing him extensively for at least a week or so. After this, I'll likely do a revamp of the item build section. I'm sure his playstyle will largely be the same, but will do some touchups here and there too.

P.S. Thanks

I know I don't have as much experience under my belt as you but if you need any help with testing the new items and different rune sets / combos let me know. I will be doing some extensive testing on him as well to figure out optimal usage of gold and optimal early / late game combos.

Thanks again,

Isamaru

For sure. Mostly I want to see what is a viable early game build that benefits the best mid-late game. Before this was tear because of a ton of mana and archangels, however since there are a couple more items I'd like to try now, I'm trying to find an alternative. Right now I'm thinking rush catalyst asap, not quite sure though.

If you see better options than chalice/catalyst that turn profit later let me know!

I'd really like to keep Rod of ages, zhonya's, and ofc sorc boots in my build, probably with a void staff. Let me know what anyone else finds/thinks.

This might seem a little strange but did you ever think about trying a couple mana regen items from runes so you never even need to make a mana starting item and you can just rush right into rod. I tried this with just 3 mana regen runes and the rest ap. in the end i ended up with more ap then usual because i had time to actually make almost my full list. (50 min in)

My build went as follows:
mana crystal, health potion mana potion
catalyst
Sorcerer's
Rod
elixir of brilliance
Soul steal
elixir of brilliance
void staff
elixir of brilliance
zohonya's
elixir of brilliance
lich bane (didnt have time for lich but thats what my next item would have been)


I remember you not wanting soul stealer for the simple reason that you had no way to fit it into your builds but that you would love to if you had the room. by making enough mana regen early game you can skip over tear and arch staff and go for as much ap as possible while keeping your health and mana still high. this coupled with the fact that soul stealer is a rather cheap item makes it a great ap replacement for your lost rune ap. i will be doing more testing but i am starting to think it might be a good idea to explore a mix and match of runes to come up with the best early / late game rune set for veigar. If you get soul stealer early game then you wont have to worry so much about how meny runes have ap and more about how your runes can help early game.

let me know what you think.

Isamaru

Yea, this is similar to the build that I was going last night. I was skipping over the soulstealer though instead getting the void staff sooner. Plan on trying soulstealer in it today. However, next patch has quite a few changes too so this build might change too x.x Right now i'm going yellow health / red magic pen / blue AP because I wanted runes that could be used on multiple champs. Need to farm more IP x.x

Theoretically this is sounding on the right track, with rushing catalyst instead of tear.

EDIT: I'm thinking buying soulstealer before finishing rod is going to be better for this type of build though. Keeps catalyst longer which is amazing and doesn't cost too much to push it to late game. RoA will still be useful. Sucks that zhonya's comes so late, but definitely does a ton of damage.

I agree with you on getting soulstealer first before rod. catalyst is so amazing early game with the health and mana regen per lvl up. really wish there was some way to get zhonya's earlier but i really cant see it coming before void.

As far as runes go since veigar is my fav champ by far i am in the process of making a full rune page just for him. Ill let you know when i figure out what rune setups i come up with.

Talk to you soon,

Isamaru