Originally Posted by Morello

Yeah - that's where we want to look most closely. While we know the raw numbers and have had testing, the circumstances that millions of games show can help us see if our methods are successful or not. We expect less early ganks from the jungle now, because the early game impact of them was so high and we wanted to lower it - players' expectations will need to align with what's optimal again. This applies to all the preseason changes really.

To answer your question, I think we are OK with more control-type junglers, but the scale of how harshly they control is the adjustment point for us to watch. Stealing the big monster is harder now, but even more important - meaning strong counterjungling has the potential to be devastating.

Originally Posted by KevinDelMarr

The added 25 MS is actually counted as Bonus MS. If you start with no boots or MS stuff (just the base 350 MS) his passive gives him 2.5 AD, 10% of 25 bonus MS. Pretty neat, huh

Originally Posted by Eat Orange Be K

I touched on this pages back (yes, I know I'm no stonewall, but general trends are still easy to see), but I've seen it come up a few times so I'll put it out there again:
He's just kinda "alright" if not still in bad shape. He's holds with a lot of others in initial clear time, but he will be a case of absolutely needing help/leashing, because he takes a heavy beating. So while it's doable and pretty quick, it's not really safe at all. :/
I also miss the armordillo

Originally Posted by LightEcho

Except the actual gold reward from clearing camps has gone down. The overall gold gain for junglers comes from increased ambient gold. This means that both farming and counter jungling are discouraged since A) both are now undeniably harder, B) the rewards at each camp don;t match up to live until about 11 minutes in.

Originally Posted by Weirding ways

I'm actually curious how malzahar (specifically ad) fares in the jungle, bearing in mind his voidlings can tank for him very easily.