Problem is that cute childlike voice has a jarring dissonance with the fully grown body choice they have, and we can argue all day about whether that body type is a problem but it's pretty obvious that the two make no sense together. I like the voice too, just not on a character with the lowest cut top known to mankind and the backing to use said top.

Re Syndra: I think the boat you missed there was "Kassadin's Daughter". She has the color style already (heck, she summons void orbs), the kit, and the theme, but somehow her lore says "random mage of great potential" instead. Add onto that with her dress making her just another "straps and belts" sexy mage, and it kinda fell flat. I was super excited to hear of her but when the trifecta of purple zyra lookalike, super underpowered at release, and no cool lore hit, it's gonna be a while before i consider unlocking her.


You say that you made all these mistakes with newer champions, but is there any plan to fix them? Go back and lightly redo Zyra's style, maybe polish Syndra's dress and/or retcon the lore, etc.

As a human, yes, he does.

As a raven, he's a murderbeast.

Duality of character - his play style changes COMPLETELY between human and demon form, from calculated aggression and carefully engaging the opponent from long range with damage over time and CC to just... waddling in and murdering people from whatever range.

And he IS a mage with high utility spells for the record, aoe snare and targeted slow built right in, on top of a damage amp.

When they say same body type, they mean in terms of shape. Sure, she's half fish, but she still has identifiable hips, an identifiable waist and identifiable breasts. Her hips and breasts are very generous and her waist is very slim. Her limbs are slim too. No real muscle to speak of. This is identical to every female champion since Diana. By contrast: http://viz.dwrl.utexas.edu/content/a...verly-ornstein.

Assuming League champions are all in athletic condition, even if they're mages, since they run around on a regular basis, most of their body types should correspond to some sort of athlete, much like the men's do. As you pointed out, the men have "strong musculature." Instead, you've said they're balanced against the men because they have "identifiable femininity in their forms." Note what you just did there, I'm guessing unintentionally. You equated femininity with lack of muscle definition and presence of curves despite the range the human female body expresses in real life.

I know you're speaking of ideals here, but isn't it a problem when the ideal female becomes distanced from athleticism. Isn't that the same sort of thing that eventually leads people to call women who rock wall climb "gross-looking" and "manly" because they have defined shoulders, to call girls who like sports tomboys? Is this not problematic in some way?

Clearly the gender issues of humanity are not your or Riot's responsibility. At the same time, ignoring them as overblown because Miss Fortune and Sona are well-liked by players and share the body type the preponderance of which is taken issue with does your community a disservice. Yes, mermaids are normally depicted as attractive women in popular culture. (Though a Google Image search shows most mermaids as more modest in scale their attributes, but then I do have safesearch on.) In a vacuum, no one would take much issue with Nami's design. (though I'd still give you guys **** for giving her a "neckline" that visually suggests her fish half is a very awkward dress) This is not a vacuum though, and I think here the better response would be:

"I understand where you're coming from, and as IronStylus has mentioned before, steps are being taken. The awareness of the predominance of the issue and the attempt to correct are both relatively recent, though, and will take a while to manifest. Champions have can go a long time between conception and release, as has Elise shown. Even then, though, these champions won't go away completely. They're popular with male and female players both. Despite the issues they may exhibit, they're issues that are reflective of gender perception in our society, and maybe that's why they're so predominant and accepted. Maybe as society changes, this will correct more and more by itself as we subconsciously adjust our perceptions.

Right now, though, we're doing what we can consciously, but that won't mean everything will instantly make everyone happy. That means ratios will shift more and more towards balance as time goes on. Meanwhile, we'll continue to count on your feedback to let us know how we're doing on this front, so don't stop being vocal. At the same time, please bear with us when something like this happens and take our word for it when we say we're not ignoring you. It's a work in progress, and we don't always see how our designs will be received by others."

Based on everything I've read up to this point, the imagined response is more or less what I assumed was the case when I read about Nami the first time. If it's accurate, feel free to use it or a cleaned up version of it yourselves. No charge. If not, really Morello, I have come to expect better of you. This is not a response born from a fixation on the point of breasts. Ironstylus, you continue to be awesome. I'm still waiting for that next set of song lyrics. And with this clip from a story NPR did on The Legend of Korra, I make my leave.

Demographic note: Young adult male who is 90% likely to buy Nami because her mechanics sound fun and the good in her design overrides the slight ridiculousness.

Understand I am a nonpartisan member of this discussion, I think both sides have good point. Elise is the way she is because they made her that way. The way I see if, her lore can be interrupted either way. I'm not saying I like it, I think if she were half spider a reduction in traits that humans and spiders do not share such as breasts would be called for but I am simply saying I can see why they made her that way. Even if her lore is only based on her ability to lure people to her with words, people say a silver tongue goes well with looks to match.

I just want to point out that "looks to match" != displaying them for all to see. *points to diana*

I can not upvote this post hard enough.

This:

Saved to a .txt and uploaded to my dropbox so I can reread it wherever.

What people like, or what LoL players like?

It seems like the answer is the latter, and that's self-perpetuating: if you design with the target audience of lowbrow teenage boys, you can pretty much guarantee the majority of your audience will always like your designs, because the majority of your audience will always be lowbrow teenage boys. Is that the idea?

As for whether you're interested in the conversation, it's hardly surprising to find you're not. A straight cismale who isn't interested in how women are portrayed in media? That's about as shocking as a middle class white person in 1950 who doesn't care about the civil-rights movement. It's about what I'd expect. But whether you're interested in knowing about the consequences of your actions or doing the right thing, this doesn't go away because you stick your fingers in your ears and pretend that there's no such thing as ethics in entertainment.

I think it is important to talk about the implications of what we make--and to hear from players what they're feeling about what we make. If our game is a cultural artifact, then it has cultural implications and exists in a cultural space (which is one of dialogue!).

TL;DR: Davin nerd Psychologist nerd nerd