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[Feedback] Rengar should not have been nerfed like this

 
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Vivi R66 ?? Senior Member
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12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
"ur forced to build a jungle item!"

so is every other jungler ever. You'll note that Spirit of the Lizard Elder procs on W, and gives a nice amount of AD.

Failing that, Tenacity/Health/Armor from Golem.

Really the damn thing is only a handicap if you never upgrade or decide to go the Wriggles route.
Dont missquote me, i said that Jungler Item + Necklace makes it unviable to build properly, so the Necklace is useless for Rengar Jungle as he will never have the item slot for it, but he was developed to be a jungler, so there you go, makes no sense.

And the Lizard thing is the worse spirit item, the Lantern at least gives sustain, Lizar item is the only item who doesnt, besides the lame health regen.

+1
 
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Voidgolem ?? Senior Member
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12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi R66 View Post
Dont missquote me, i said that Jungler Item + Necklace makes it unviable to build properly, so the Necklace is useless for Rengar Jungle as he will never have the item slot for it, but he was developed to be a jungler, so there you go, makes no sense.

And the Lizard thing is the worse spirit item, the Lantern at least gives sustain, Lizar item is the only item who doesnt, besides the lame health regen.
Well, yes, the necklace sucks for any Rengar now, and that is admittedly a problem.

That you say the Lizard sucks tells me that you haven't used it.

Here's a thought: Stop building Rengar as more-tank-than-DPS tanky DPS, start using some of the 30-odd new bruiser AD items they put out with the patch - Cleaver, BORK, Mercurial. Any of them.

I guarantee you'll be impressed with the results once you've gotten the hang of them.

-3
 
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Vivi R66 ?? Senior Member
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12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
Well, yes, the necklace sucks for any Rengar now, and that is admittedly a problem.

That you say the Lizard sucks tells me that you haven't used it.

Here's a thought: Stop building Rengar as more-tank-than-DPS tanky DPS, start using some of the 30-odd new bruiser AD items they put out with the patch - Cleaver, BORK, Mercurial. Any of them.

I guarantee you'll be impressed with the results once you've gotten the hang of them.

I said its the worse Spirit item, not that it sucks.

Wraith gives Spellvamp, AP and CDR
Golem gives Armor, HP and Tenacity

Lizard gives AD and a DoT, thats it. Others give 3 big stats and sustain, this gives damage and only damage. Compared to the others, its a lackluster item.

Lantern gives you the sustain so you can double Q instead of using W for sustain, and it scales with attack speed making you destroy the dragon and lets you steal enemy jungle.

+1
 
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Voidgolem ?? Senior Member
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12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi R66 View Post
I said its the worse Spirit item, not that it sucks.

Wraith gives Spellvamp, AP and CDR
Golem gives Armor, HP and Tenacity

Lizard gives AD and a DoT, thats it. Others give 3 big stats and sustain, this gives damage and only damage. Compared to the others, its a lackluster item.

Lantern gives you the sustain so you can double Q instead of using W for sustain, and it scales with attack speed making you destroy the dragon and lets you steal enemy jungle.
It gives damage and only damage.

You are playing a champion that has ludicrous scaling.

You have at least four other slots to do the sustain thing. Most notably Blade of the Ruined King, which is ridiculously OP for people like Rengar.

this is apparently rocket science.

-1
 
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IonDragonX ?? Senior Member
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12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
Well, yes, the necklace sucks for any Rengar now, and that is admittedly a problem.
And so it has been since Rengar got added. Heres an item that only works when you snowball but all it adds is a bunch of "fringe benefits"
Quote:
That you say the Lizard sucks tells me that you haven't used it.
It costs 2400. You get tons more damage and a little better sustain from Tiamat, which is 100 gold cheaper. Then you can also upgrade the Tiamat but you can't upgrade the Lizard Spirit. Why throw your money into a dead end item?
Quote:
Here's a thought: Stop building Rengar as more-tank-than-DPS tanky DPS, start using some of the 30-odd new bruiser AD items they put out with the patch - Cleaver, BORK, Mercurial. Any of them. I guarantee you'll be impressed with the results once you've gotten the hang of them.
Here's a thought: Stop ignoring the fact that Rengar needs to be coddled to have a decent jungle speed. Try to make your first jungle clear within 4 minutes without going under half health. Also, do that without using all 5 potions, any leash, or a micromanaged rune page. Stop quoting what Rengar can do late game with 3000 gold items. That was not the purpose of my original post. My point is that his levels 1 thru 3 are absolutely horrible in the jungle.

+2
 
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Voidgolem ?? Senior Member
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12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IonDragonX View Post
And so it has been since Rengar got added. Heres an item that only works when you snowball but all it adds is a bunch of "fringe benefits"

It costs 2400. You get tons more damage and a little better sustain from Tiamat, which is 100 gold cheaper. Then you can also upgrade the Tiamat but you can't upgrade the Lizard Spirit. Why throw your money into a dead end item?
Here's a thought: Stop ignoring the fact that Rengar needs to be coddled to have a decent jungle speed. Try to make your first jungle clear within 4 minutes without going under half health. Also, do that without using all 5 potions, any leash, or a micromanaged rune page. Stop quoting what Rengar can do late game with 3000 gold items. That was not the purpose of my original post. My point is that his levels 1 thru 3 are absolutely horrible in the jungle.
You're saying this like it isn't true of all junglers right now. (save really ridiculous options like Warwick/Fiddle/Nunu, who still have about the same clears as Rengar)

tip: Everyone else is in the same boat. Rengar is fine.

Though Bonetooth isn't. Eh.

-1
 
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Vivi R66 ?? Senior Member
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12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
You're saying this like it isn't true of all junglers right now. (save really ridiculous options like Warwick/Fiddle/Nunu, who still have about the same clears as Rengar)

tip: Everyone else is in the same boat. Rengar is fine.

Though Bonetooth isn't. Eh.
I am still waiting the login queue to test it, but i doubt he is fine, i bet he will probably have the same sustain Shyvana has, but not the same speed.

+0
 
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IonDragonX ?? Senior Member
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12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
You're saying this like it isn't true of all junglers right now. (save really ridiculous options like Warwick/Fiddle/Nunu, who still have about the same clears as Rengar)
tip: Everyone else is in the same boat. Rengar is fine.
Except for Lee Sin,
or Dr. Mundo,
or Maokai,
or Skarner,
or Nocturne,
or Udyr,
or Shyvana,
or Trundle,
or Jarvan,
or Cho`Gath,
or Alistar,
or Malphite,
or Hecarim,
or Olaf,
or Darius

All of which have about the same clear speed as they did in Season 2. All of which finish their first clear with decent health and leftover potions.

Even though "ridiculous options like Warwick/Fiddle/Nunu... have about the same clears", THEY have the capability to gank at level 4 WHILE clearing the jungle for their gold. Rengar is forced to either get gank gold or crappy jungle gold but not both. Even worse is if he attempts to gank or roam and fails to get any profit from it. He's very item dependent.

+3
 
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Vivi R66 ?? Senior Member
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12-07-2012

Hey, i tested rengar myself, and guess what?

All his builds i used before (4/5/21 for cdr, 9/21/0 and 21/9/0) have worse sustain and 10 seconds more clear time at least

Before my 4/5/21 would clear at 3:45 and get me extra gold, now the same build cleared at 4:08 (Y), i ended with no pots at half hp.

With 21/9/0, i cleared the jungle in 3:56, but i had so low hp that i could not do a thing, even a single Lulu Q would kill me probably (the good news is that after first B you can grab madreds and then melt camps that arent golems)...
3:56 is terrible compared to other junglers, all of them do 3:45 with no sweatting.
This was a bad bad nerf.

Also, the ult delay isnt a huge problem because of the delay itself, but because the moviment speed is also delayed!, it was normal for you to use the R to move faster and leap to someone who is running, now you have 1.25 seconds of nothing while you try.

His Ult is bad as an Ult now, the cooldown and the duration are terrible.

+1
 
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IonDragonX ?? Senior Member
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12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi R66 View Post
Hey, i tested rengar myself, and guess what?

All his builds i used before (4/5/21 for cdr, 9/21/0 and 21/9/0) have worse sustain and 10 seconds more clear time at least

Before my 4/5/21 would clear at 3:45 and get me extra gold, now the same build cleared at 4:08 (Y), i ended with no pots at half hp.

With 21/9/0, i cleared the jungle in 3:56, but i had so low hp that i could not do a thing, even a single Lulu Q would kill me probably (the good news is that after first B you can grab madreds and then melt camps that arent golems)...
3:56 is terrible compared to other junglers, all of them do 3:45 with no sweatting.
This was a bad bad nerf.

Also, the ult delay isnt a huge problem because of the delay itself, but because the moviment speed is also delayed!, it was normal for you to use the R to move faster and leap to someone who is running, now you have 1.25 seconds of nothing while you try.

His Ult is bad as an Ult now, the cooldown and the duration are terrible.
I'm glad to see that someone else used his ult for Run Speed.

+2

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