i kind of find it funny that people are actually defending black cleaver. the only counter to black cleaver is black cleaver.

dumb item and i'm surprised riot has not hotfixed it yet

I hurd they removed Ryals from the game.... oh wait they didn't? Damn with all these no health AP item QQ going around I would of thought otherwise. And there are only 6 manaless AP champions. Two of them, Kat and Akalii, are freaking assassins and they aren't meant to be tanky, they're meant to go in, kill everybody / clean up crew, and get out. Then you have Morde who is beyond tanky just by himself no need for extra health so rylas is enough and he stacks spell vamp anywayz. Then you have kennen.. a ninja with stuns everywhere and one of the best escapes.. oh yeah and of course he's ranged. Then you have Rumble, another tanky AP champ with a freaking shield. In the end you have Vlad.. do we need to explain how health works with him?

If you're an AP caster, not building RoA and Rylas against heavy dmg then you're failing. Also, you see that guy with 2 Cleavers? Guess what, he spent 6k of his gold on those, probably has some boots that cost him 850. Add in some pots and wards that he;s bought that means he's spent 7k gold and more than likely only has those items which means he is BEYOND FREAKING SQUISHY. How about you take advantage of his obvious lack of MR, and blow them up before they get to you.

that straight 30% armor shred is that OP, eh?

It isn't 90% or whatever no matter how many cleavers the other team has (though it can get there for like, LW/BC Darius and such. Except then he has relatively low health and zero resists, so breath on him until he dies)

I find it kindah funny that people can't actually realize the item has a counter.

Oh wait let me guess.. you're the kind of player that likes the fact that all it took to make assassins completely useless in a game was to put on either 1 Frozen heart or 1 Randuins Omen. Completely balanced right?

This whole patch is broken. They have lost a customer as well as a player until it is fixed. This patch has the most backwards gameplay EVER in LoL. That Black Cleaver? No Force of Nature? ARE YOU AWARE THAT YOU FAVOR MAGES!!!? Out of all of the **** items you added, have you EVER considered a sister item to the thornmail for mages? Nerfing the Warmogs? It takes a warmogs AND a force of nature to tank a mid mage and BOTH of them are compromised. Although this IS just a rant because of the horrible gameplay experiences i have had the past few days, I graduated with a BA in Game Design and Development and I USED to be fascinated by what they did with LoL. Knowing the mechanics, they keep adding more power into the mix via champs and items. If you want to nerf something, nerf DARIUS' ult AND passive....screw it...too much to even say...

Um.. WHAT?

Before this fiasco with bc started, most ap casters didn't buy roa OR rylai's unless they were specifically built for it, i.e. Swain/Morg/Diana, and when they did, they would rush it and be done with it for the rest of the game to focus on the rest of their build, i..e deathcap, dfg/athene's.

You're suggesting that they buy BOTH items? when even with the extra hp and very little ap, they'll be doing likely 25% of the total dmg of the bc-stacking enemy team, and therefore still lose to them?

What champ are you seriously suggesting you buy -both- roa and rylai's on, because none of the champs I play would even buy one of them and still expect to do their job. You'd really expect a Morg or a Lux to get rylai's in their build? A 3k+ item with a passive that is useless on both of those champs, that adds 1.6k worth of ap, where even if its rushed, adds very meager amounts of survivability and stops you from bursting anyone down.

You're suggesting an Eve buys roa/rylai's? A Fiddle? A LeBlanc is supposed to get roa/rylai's?

Yeah okay. Let's just completely disregard the fact that the people buying/stacking blackcleaver are completely forgoing defensive options in their build because they simply don't need it, yet anyone facing them has to buy 1-2k+ worth of hp to not be called bad by you.

Definitely seems fair and balanced.

I'm guessing you're a rengar main.

No one thinks it's balanced, everyone knows its OP, the question is just if it's so OP that there needs to be a hotfix just for it.

hotfixes are actually quite hard to do, and can introduce game breaking bugs because not everything is tested properly, it's to do be done when something needs fixing NOW.

They are nerfing it next patch, this is pre-season, they were ment to do crazy things, they are now just letting them stew for a while to work out a wholistic patch to fix everything again, and keep iterating like that, now just bandaiding one item they admit they screwed up on.

just wait, if you dont like it, stop playing until then, it wont kill you, LoL will still be here.

Change is bad. I should build the same **** every game and get anything that changes that build nerfed.

Got it.

Talking about cleaverstacking on one person?
Then that would be:
1k health
150 AD
40% CDR
60 Arpen, factor masteries/runes into it too.

And that 30% armor reduction in one AA/AD spell.
You can explode ANYONE with this unless he is Mundo with 6 warmogs. And to add insult to injury, most AD casters have pretty strong gapclosers so your carries are null.
Teamwide cleaverstacking is just accelerating the whole thing. And add someone like J4 into it with his armorshred. You can be Malphite with 500 armor, this **** will bring you down to +-140. That is saying something.

And yes, call me butthurt. I just really, REALLY want to see this gone.

the post I was quoting referred to cleaver-stacking across a whole team.

For one person refer back to my statement of "The problems' less Cleaver and more someone fed a guy 12k+ to buy four cleavers with".

I will admit: Making them Unique is a fair nerf.

Toning down their stats in addition seems a step too far.