It's beneficial to the jungler in the long run but hurts mid in the short term. Most solo queue games are decided within the first 20 minutes.

So yes it is more beneficial in a 5 man premade however most games are not 5 man premades.

I believe there has to be a happy balance that hasn't been hit for both solo queue and 5 man premades. If not then Riot created a jungle they can not effectively balance. Right now the jungle is not in a good place. You're either fed or starved.

Does this show the difference between a bad jungler and a good one? Yes, but Riot stated the game got to toxic top from snowballing. Why create the same effect now in the jungle?

Should philo stone be core on every jungler in order to keep up in gold? What do you do about exp? Risk an invade knowing that if you die you may never recover?

This solved nothing. You hold your smite while passing blue in the event you need to smite blue to prevent the enemy from stealing it. You don't walk up and smite blue then pass it along.

100% Agree, and I"m also mad that now when I am at wraiths during the mid game, the mid laner will casually just steal my big wraith and one red wraith. I type "... wtf man" in response and he responds "i need the cs" THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. NO Fking excuses.

I completely agree so much. I don't touch double golems at all anymore. You are forced to camp lanes to a much much greater extent and it sickens me. We need an equivalent of HoG because our income is virtually nonexistent. Spirit and wriggles are the only viable buys, and more than usual i'll go for wriggles just so i can clear camps faster so that i can attempt to keep up.

I agree with this so much. Season 2 meta was where junglers were expected to gank nonstop. Low elo and noobs don't understand that a season 1 meta existed and functioned with much greater diversity. We need that diversity back because S2 was terrible in comparison, and we can all agree S3 is worse than S2 in terms of jungling.

Very true. If I gank and see them blow flash I"m like "Ok they blew flash......." It doesn't help me very much. It may enable the laner to get a kill later on, but I'm not going to get an assist 30s later which is when the laner sees an opportunity and engages. And because I just failed a gank, I did not collect any income in my primary source of income, and therefore I'm falling behind even further.

This sums up the situation basically, and I"m sick and tired of Riot for avoiding this. I swear to god if S3 is worse than the S2 jungle, and if its worse from the very beginning, I"m just ditching this game and headed straight for dota2. I see a ton more potential in that.

Dactylogram - Jungle is the team's second support. You need to be ganking, warding, oracling, controlling objectives.

Riot does NOT want you to be able to afk farm for 15 minutes and then turn the tide. That's retarded. You aren't playing bots - in order to be a success you actually have to beat a player not a jungle mob.

No it is not our primary job to oracle and ward. That is a perversion of the jungling role that occurred in season 2. Controlling objectives and ganking has always been there, but when the change from season 1 to season 2 happened, farming and control junglers became UNviable (COMPLETELY Unviable) and it ushered a phase where only ganking junglers could survive. The udyr's, warwicks, fiddles, that you saw in season 2 were rare and focused on ganking mostly because simply "afk farming" as you put it was not enough for gold income.

Just like your last comment which got downvoted, your response proves that you did not play this game during season 1. Watch some stonewall008 videos during that time. Jungling was very very different back then, and the role was ruined in season 2 and even further ruined now in season 3. I feel bad for you newer players because you never got to experience the joy and fun of season 1 jungle. Back then we had actual, true power.

Ok first post on forums here goes.

I read through a lot of the posts so far and I have to disagree with you AlexDnD2. People like Dactylogram and Eraser make a lot of sense to me. I didnt' play in season 1, but I watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EtEWv2o0BQ and some others that Dactylogram suggested (from stonewalls channel) and HOLY **** I didn't know junglers were this powerful in the game!! And omg red wraiths giving 12 gold!!!! If this is the jungle that we once had in league that people are talking about, I want it too. And jesus I understand now what counter jungling is. When I played in season 2 i just cleared the camp and respawned, but after seeing that and a couple of other videos I think I kinda understand what people mean when they say counterjungling is dead now.
In S2 all junglers built support because that was the only way to get enough gold, but from the S1 vids I saw.... Just wow. I honestly never knew some of those things were possible

Here is another vid I saw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NCM5wyfDmA

Dang I want that jungle

Thanks Aero, glad to see that someone agrees with me.
And that jungle jarvan game personally is one of my favorite videos. It just shows how different things were back then.

bump. Riot still hasn't addressed this.

Well for me AlexDnD2 not only didn't play this game during season 1, but he is a player who always ask (or whinning) for a gank to win his lane.

Anyway somehow the S3 Jungle still not right for me, yeah it's because of the gold starvation, because we don't have enough gold we can't buy item so fast.

After around 300 games I'm completely convinced that the gold and XP rates compared to the difficulty of the minions is bad. Farming jungle and leveling with it is actually slower than before. If anything I feel more pressured now to go gank early, and do it A LOT. If I do that then I counterjungle the enemy, make them feel terribad because they'll actually fall behind. And then just carry with said advantage.
And it's the other way around if I don't pull a lucky gank. I'll fall behind...

So yeah, congratulations, you made early ganking even more crucial than before. Why do you think everyone is starting flask + pots? (besides sustain): wards...

Please fix this.