Originally Posted by Worst Sejuani
Hey Rickless (or anyone who wants to step in...) I was wondering if you could give me a decent argument for building Liandry's. I don't see how it's a must-have item on Sejuani over for example Sunfire cape, Sunfire provides a similar amount of damage each tick.
Given the fact that all of Sejuani's abilities are in an AoE, the Liandry's passive is using the 2.5% of current health over 1.5 seconds, which is doubled to 5% over 1.5 seconds, provided that the enemy is slowed. 5% of 2500 for example is 125. The Liandry's ticks every 0.5 seconds doing ~42 damage per tick, giving a DPS of 84 damage. Sunfire in this case, would still be doing it's standard 40 DPS in an AoE.
However once you take into account that Liandry's is based off of current health, the longer a teamfight draws out, the more beneficial Sunfire is. At 1200 health, the DPS evens out, and any health lower than that, sunfire will be more effective. As well as this, Sunfire is hitting in a constant AoE, and doesn't require a spell to be used in order to do damage. Coupled with the fact that the stats it gives are better for Sejuani than the Liandry's, I just don't see a reason to get Liandry's over Sunfire.
I play Sejuani as a pure tank and I feel weak without that bulkiness. Liandry's is a pretty expensive item and buying it also effectively means you need to get Sorc shoes, again decreasing your bulk. Early game Sej is particularly squishy, and rushing a haunting guise is the best way to utilize the item, which again delays your tankiness. It does provide AP but as Sejuani's AP scalings are very small, it's hard to notice the effect of it.
For me, MS quints are core on Sej. That extra movespeed means you outspeed AD carries and some mid laners that start boots, which is really good for ganking.
I can give my opinion.
Well first of all, I agree with you. Sejuani's needs are:
(4) Mana Sustain
Your build accomplishes that wonderfully. In fact, I used a build very similar to yours in Season 2 and it works great, so, if that is what you like, there really is nothing wrong with it.
My build used to be: philo/HoG/Aegis/Shurelyia's/Glacial Shroud/Situational
Having said that, in Season 3, with the removal of HoG, the health nerfs to Aegis and Shurelyia's, and the armor nerf to Glacial Shroud, I felt significantly weaker in the jungle early game than I used to. To combat this, I decided to replace HoG with Haunting Guise and since I had Spirit Stone anyway, I decided that SotAG was an efficient item for her. With that, I decided I could build Sorc Shoes and thus my build was born. I feel like it has almost the exact same level of tankiness, but it just lacks the Shurelyia's active that I used to have. However, the magic pen makes a huge difference and I find that I actually do the most damage of any other character on my team to champions in 80% of my games as well as being insanely tanky. The reason that this is because the only non-tank item I build is haunting guise and thus Liandry's. This allows Sejuani's damage to always be relevant to the targets that you want to damage (read squishies) and the threat of you killing them actually makes you a more attractive target to distract the damage from your team and be an effective tank.
So here is my explaination of Liandry's. First of all, I don't like it early. I don't feel like it does not do enough damage to warrant her to get it anything before her 4th item as it really does not make Sejuani any tankier or ease any of her above needs and delays her overall effectiveness in game. With the prevelance of burst having a huge role in early engagements, building Liandry's just does not cut it in my opinion as it does limited sustain damge early and does not help you to survive burst much more than a Haunting Guise. A dead Sejuani is not an effective Sejuani.
However, it is really useful late game when people have stacked HP and I find that it keeps her damage scary at that point in the game which allows you to tank better. I think that a crucial part of tanking is that one survives damage, but, sometimes the best type of defense is to have some type of offense that hurts. If you don't have to tank as long and you are more threatening, people will not ignore you and you can end the battle faster than otherwise through your addition of damage to the fight. I think that this tips the odds in your favor as you will be taking more damage (because people care about you) over shorter durations (because fights end faster) and thus doing your job better.
As compared to Sunfire Cape, I don't like how it aggros monsters and objectives and its range is limited to immediately around you, whereas the damage benefit from Liandry's works on all of your abilities (read your ult and E) rather than just your W. It also does not build incrementally, so it takes a good while to get the passive and it is not the most efficient of items for what it is.
Finally with Movement Speed Quints, I agree. I prefer the armor quints that I use as it makes her safer in her early clears and that is my playstyle philosophy with her. These Armor Qunits allow me to consistently be at a signifiantly higher health allows me to gank earlier, with greater success, and more frequently in the laning phase than I would with Movement Speed Quints. However, I think that Movement Speed quints are amazing and would be a very close second with Magic Pen quints being a third viable choice. Its all about your style and how you want to play. There is no right or wrong answer, it is how you are personally most effective. As a rule, when jungling, I always try to use Movement Speed Quints whenever I can with all of my characters but Sejuani, I think, is more effecive with what I use for me.
TLDR: I would not rush Liandry's as it would hurt Sejuani's other goals as a tank as I agree with your philosophy on Sejuani for the most part. It gives little inheritant tankiness above Haunting Guise. However, Haunting Guise early is worth it since it gives tankiness and damage and it is only 1300g but only after your early tankiness is established. However, it does really help Sejuani in the late game as it keeps her damage relevant and can help to lay down heavy aoe DPS across the board and encourage people to not ignore you.