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@ Lyte: what is your next step

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natemiddleman2 ?? Senior Member
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03-12-2013

Any info on this tread: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3218141

Its 0:50 and ranked is still up.

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Lyte Lyte's Avatar ?? Lead Designer of Social Systems

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15 of 21 Riot Posts
03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockJockey View Post
@Lyte, would you care to elaborate on Champion Selection feature? Would it be accommodating to non-Meta strategies.

For Example: Duo Top, Duo Mid, Double Jungle, No Jungle, All Mid, All Support, etc...

To get even more complex, could one select descriptive features such as AD, AP, Hybrid, Tank, Off-Tank, etc... to let your teammates know what role you will be doing?

Whenever I get into champion select, I sometimes feel like playing Double Jungle, not everyone is supportive of this non-meta strategy so it rarely gets done. If there was a specific feature you could click to pair with others who feel like doing Double Jungle too, this would be awesome.

Soviet Swain Approves Red Replies
-Rockjockey
I'm hoping to have a discussion about Champ Select tomorrow. Let's bring up the ideas there!

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Ghan04 ?? Senior Member
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03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Exactly.

The majority of this playerbase is neutral or positive. We need to find ways to highlight this behavior. Spotlight it. Talk about it. We need players to look around and realize that most of the players around them are awesome people.

I see this in the data everyday. But even in the neurosciences, we know how strong negative experiences can be--they last for a long time in memory, and outweigh positive memories. Is this solvable? We'll see.
What kind of data would you come up with if you were to look at chat logs of games where there was a great amount of "Honor activity" - what I mean by this is games where a large % of the players gave out Honor, especially Honorable Opponent to the other team - and then look at global chat in these games. What might you find there? Would chat logs be something that you could show other summoners? Are there ways you could include more context into what was going on in the game in such a display?

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pilling ?? Junior Member
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03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Hackulator is right though. Anytime you show boundaries and a 'status bar,' players do their best to game the system and skirt that fine line. Some players might see the bar and go, "Ok, I can troll and leave X games... oh wait, my bar is almost full. Time to chill for a few games." This might sound fine in concept, until you realize that overall, we've introduced more toxicity than we've removed.
While I think this is a good point about a "status bar" I think it's good to be able to have some way of telling how you're doing overall. In other words, it'd be nice to be able to get an audit once in a while -- like a credit report.

I mean, I know I sometimes have bad days but I try to keep it civil even in those cases. However, I have absolutely no idea if I'm doing "good" or "ok" in terms of player behavior. I haven't ever got a warning nor ban so I suppose that's a little information, but it might be nice to be able to get like an auto-generated quarterly summary or something. Not so frequent that people could dance around the warning/ban line, but you know, enough to kind of know you're doing well.

I think this sort of thing would be exceptionally valuable.

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Lyte Lyte's Avatar ?? Lead Designer of Social Systems

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16 of 21 Riot Posts
03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightNooblar View Post
Just a thought for the restricted chat, could it include a whitelist for things that can be said?

Like allow the following words to work, and the rest be dropped "Mia" "ward" "warded" "yes" "no" "Blue buff" "gg", etc?

I'm sure there are more that can be found with your "commonly used words" tools, but the idea is obviously that it would allow communication, while not allowing toxicity. It might even help train people to communicate, without being toxic about it. I know that pings, especially the new pings, work for this to an extent, but I don't think I could do my job as a jungler with just pings, and I certainly couldn't do it as well with just pings. And as support, I'd be unable to clearly state the concept "Yes, we'd love a gank, they've warded their lane bush, and river, but our lane bush is free for you to sneak in to" without
my interactions being mistaken for "No, we don't want a gank".

Perhaps this is part of their punishment for toxicity, but I really don't like the idea of taking negative players, crippling them, and then putting them back into general populace. To me it feels like asking four people to act as the extra leg for a person who would just as soon be snapping at us, if given the ability.

Maybe your data shows otherwise though? I'd be interested to see numbers about player behavior, both from a toxicity, and a basic game mechanic, point relating to the experiment.
We have considered a whitelist for the chat restriction feature.

Awhile back, we decided to analyze hundreds of thousands of chat logs and created some word clouds for what "good behavior" language looks like compared to "toxic behavior" language. In that exercise, it turns out that the most toxic word that is used by toxic players (and rarely used by positive players!) was "report" and "reported."

The most positive words that were rarely used by toxic players were player names--this makes sense if you consider that most players that know each other's real names tend to be RL friends. If you factor this out, you do see words like "gg" and "good game."

We probably won't add a whitelist into the experiments until much later, but it's on our minds.

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Chocoßo ?? Senior Member
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03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
It's possible, but we want to take some pretty huge risks with player punishments in League of Legends. Instead of focusing on tech or research to chase down and proactively ban smurf accounts, we opted to explore account restrictions and move towards a future where players can potentially still play the game on their mains--but with many different types of account restrictions.
so when you implement these changes, will all permabanned accounts be unbanned but with the new restrictions set in place automatically?

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Lyte Lyte's Avatar ?? Lead Designer of Social Systems

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17 of 21 Riot Posts
03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocoßo View Post
so when you implement these changes, will all permabanned accounts be unbanned but with the new restrictions set in place automatically?
Nope. I've mentioned this elsewhere in the thread but new player behavior features will never lift prior permabans, even if the permaban was 1 day before the feature launched.

There's many reasons I've talked about before about why this is the right approach for the playerbase, even if permabanned players believe it's unfair.

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BrightNooblar ?? Senior Member
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03-13-2013

I actually knew that tidbit about "reported". One of the more interesting tidbits i've picked up whilst lurking the tribunal forums. Does a good job of highlighting an interesting aspect of toxicity that people often forget, though.

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Cryswar ?? Senior Member
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03-13-2013

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Originally Posted by BrightNooblar View Post
I actually knew that tidbit about "reported". One of the more interesting tidbits i've picked up whilst lurking the tribunal forums. Does a good job of highlighting an interesting aspect of toxicity that people often forget, though.
Yeah. Soon as you start playing the blame game, things go downhill fast.

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MrHatsworth ?? Junior Member
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03-13-2013

Lyte, this is something that I have seen in other games as an incentive for positive player behavior:

Measure and rewarding good behavior. Essentially there is a metric that records the player's behavior based on whether they get reported or not. This ratio is displayed and if the said ratio is positive then the player is rewarded with bonus points(in LoL's case: IP) per game based on how skewed that ratio is. Granted this should be noticeable enough to be satisfying but not enough to break the current IP economy(if that is something you consider.

Perhaps you could consider this type of reward system by integrating it with the Honor System as well? Restrictive punishment from the tribunal could also prevent the player from having access to such a reward for a pre-determined period(possibly opening up the varying degrees of punishment for varying degrees of toxicity).

This is just my personal opinion but I think that having a degree of extrinsic reward may also have an intrinsic reward in that you are being rewarded for being a positive player.

What do you think?

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