Thx for your input Roku, I plan to try a build simular to this but havent gotten around to it. I still disagree with not prioritizing Dark Matter since i use it as my bread and butter skill. Also i started getting a abyssal scepter instead of lich bane awhile back and need to update it into my guide. I do need to try out the potion you mentioned, sounds pretty swanky.

Been doing alot of testing with runes, mainly trying out spel pen instead of cd reduction. I had great success my first go and then two failures mainly due to a high lack of teamwork. I feel that some early AP is needed for a smoother early game but i havent found a number im comfortable with.

Agreed, but itll hurt your farming to beat the golem down so its better to just nuke the jax or warwick whos carryin it =P

The full list of items can be found here on the beta forums under the items section.

Thx alot, glad i could help ya get started playing Veigar effectively. His burst 1,2 combos are insane =]



If you cast them properly all thats needed to land a DM is 1 lvl of EH, this has been proven. The guide already states to take 2 early lvls of Baleful, any more and youll hurt ur farming and nuking ability in a fight.

#1 using this guide you wont have the mana regen to make use of a slight cd buff. you would need to rune spec into it which would effect ur overall usefulness lategame.

#2 if early game you were to be forced into a situation where you needed to defend urself the slight inc to balefuls dmg wouldnt be as effective as a second well placed spell. and the slight cd buff wouldnt even come into effect before the fight was over.

The stun can be learned at lvl 1 if your teammate wants to play aggressively but i find its much more benefitial to me to make ~4AP and stay in the lane longer. DM gives far more lane control than Baleful and makes farming a breeze.

I've played with ViVi (Veigar :X) for about 10 games, noticing one thing, you get targeted and you get targeted quick. I first started out building an ap/magic regen build while using hp static runes to try preventing the deaths offback. Did not help a lick. Getting ganked and shut down early game really ruins this character if you don't try, or not able to, farm and get some items. I build this guy as Dark Matter being priority, along with Baleful next. I usually play a lane until around lvl 5, then i can come close to 1 shotting neutrals. You can't go into a game expecting to gank with this guy early game I find, you make up for it late game and make up for it you do. Building this guy w/ armor/hp/magic resis depending on your opponents team makeup helps also, and I'm surprised at what this guy can do with just 200ap plus. I also use a cd rune build with him, making myself able to farm quicker (still need to try out diff rune builds tho).

Just my $.02

You will be targeted, but this can be countered. Anytime someones moves forward to atk you lay a EH down so that it will stun them if they come further, then immediately cast DM on the area they run into.

If your laning against early stunners it gets trickier. You need to hug your tower(stayin out of range preferably) and use DM to weaken the minions as they reach it. If they ever atk the tower as the last minion is being slain, make sure to EH them in place.

All of this requires a ton of magic regen that can be attained only with teleport and a chalice. Once i get 500g if im having trouble i stop the wave then quick blue pill for a refresh. Also i usually get a ruby crystal as my second item instead of boots. It allows you to take a few more hits than can be detrimental to landing the DM/EH combo.

As far as runes go im still tryin stuff. Next up im gonna try straight starting AP with 10 spell pen and see what that does for my farming.

I'm tellin ya, tear first is all the mana you'll need especially end game! Maybe a couple mana pots to carry you over early game, but in reality a rod of ages has been plenty of survivability for me, maybe with a health pot or two. If you're using baleful to last hit over using dark matter, and have a decent rune page, you can have almost 80-100 ap by level 6, which is enough to make anyone think twice before hitting you. Baleful also has a decent range now, making it easy to get your last hits, your ap, your gold, and your exp while being out of range of enemies.

Yeah, I usually just get tear, then some hp, hp regen items. Using teleport early game to regen and tele back to wherever needed to help push, then going neutral more. But i've built this guy with maybe one ap object and with 200 spellpower could oneshot any idiot not wearing magic resist :P. Also early game EH proves useless unless you have an aggressive lane partner and can stun again to land the dm. At early levels the time dm takes to go off vs. the stun in EH dont work together. I usually keep EH lvl 1 until I am ready to truly gank ppl, using level 1 EH to help ppl get away (pugs). To each his own tho, this is just how I play with veigar otherwise I can't seem to get a rythm going.

Tear would only solve your early mana issues if you took baleful over DM, which imo is like shooting urself in the foot as a Vivi player. The gold, control, and experience boost DM gives you over baleful is better than about 10 early game ap from shorter cds.

80-100ap by level six from just runes masteries and last hitting by lvl 6 is completely unrealistic. You could start with about 27 AP from runes, get another 4 from masteries by lvl 6, your saying ur able to last hit 50-70 minions with at lvl 5 a ever so slightly btr cd than my guide already uses and less mana regen. Im not even certain youll see that many by lvl 6.

Not to mention putting DM on the back burner gives you the same lane control as a gimpy annie. If they get aggressive and push you back your gonna lose a tower while waiting for ur baleful cd to end so you can gain 1 more ap. Im sure your team wont care since that ap is gonna carry them late game tho.

Mana issues late game are usually nill for me since i can combo, cast my ult, and its replenished.



200 ap is gonna make tanks giggle like the pillsbury dough boy. I agree with the only taking 1 lvl of EH and in fact its in my guide, but I highly disagree with it not working with DM. If you can cast DM as someone retreats or moves to atk then cast EH directly afterwards its an instant hit. Its all about how well you can percieve the enemies movements. Often I use myself as a lure and cast it where they stand when they enter atk range then ring around their back with the stun so that they get to choose DM or running at my allies, or in Master Yis case just cast it on urself as he uses his blink strike ability.

Unrealistic? Here...I actually didnt even do as good last hitting as I usually do, and there were no champion kills... I know how good dark matter is and I use it ALL the time mid-late game. The damage and cooldown at no extra mana cost is just much more preferable to me, especially with a tear. Then the extra mana pays off later when you make an archangel out of it and you never have to worry about regen. Sure you don't have to with just comboing, what about constantly spamming dark matter/EH as you're getting teampushed back?

I'm just sayin, don't knock it til you try it. Just cause you're not killing them as fast doesn't mean you're not getting the same income, with AP as a bonus. Not to mention that damage early game is easier to gank with then DM (Not saying DM is impossible, saying easier.)