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Originally Posted by Reiq
People are really forgetting how these two items are calculated, the returned damage from thornmail is after all calculations, it is 30% of what the wearer actually took, if an AD carry crits a tank for 500 damage they will take 30% of that, which is 150 damage, if the tank has 9 magic pen and 10% magic pen against a target with 30 MR they will have (0.9*30)-8.5=18.5, at 18.5MR they will receive 84.4% of that reflected damage, .844*150=126.6, now if they have even a single Bloodthirster, they will negate nearly all this damage, since 20% of 500 is 100, they would then only take approx. 26.6 damage.
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BZZT! Incorrect.
Thornmail is BEFORE mitigation. It's based on how much damage you would have dealt if I had 0 Armor (which I don't, because Thornmail gives 100 and base Armor ranges from 61-90 at level 18). If Thornmail WAS based on how much you took, then it would ironically be mitigated by having more Armor. AFTER calculating how much damage that would be, the damage values go through mitigation (the damage of the attacker goes through the defender's Armor, and the defender's reflection goes through the attacker's MR).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LoL Wiki
Unique Passive: On being hit, returns 30% of damage, before any reductions such as armor, as magic damage. At least 15 damage must be received.
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Always good to look stuff up before saying something you don't know for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiq
Also, if you take into account melee bruisers, you can throw it all out the window and stamp "completely worthless" on these two items for their unique effects since they will likely have over 100MR.
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So what you're saying is...
Bruisers can beat around Thornmail, an item designed to 1v1 DPS champions.
Which is not news. Bruisers are a cross between DPS, casters and tanks, more or less, relying equally on damage output, defense and spells. They might be more focused on one of those three attributes, but they use them all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewul
In terms of the Sunfire Cape, the upgrade's worth about as much as a Blasting Wand, and considering many tanks (Rammus, Malph, Taric, kind of Leona) have decent AP ratios, getting the AP would help their burst more than the extra 40 DPS to surrounding units if it didn't take up an additional two item slots. Since you're yet again looking at an item at a higher tier than Giant's Belt and Scale Vest, it should provide more stats than either (as is the case with most items) or provide a passive that's worth the upgrade (as is the case with Atma's.)
So Sunfire definitely needs an upgrade to its stats or damage aura, or at least a reduction in its cost. However, slapping true damage on it isn't the way to go, since you're not aiming to damage enemies who've built for high resistances.
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That's actually not correct either. Notice how most tanks are based on sticking to a target, getting into the fray, and disabling dangerous enemies. Now please, tell me, on which champion would 40 AP be equal to the DPS increase on Sunfire Cape,
when you account for cooldowns, the limiting factor for damaging with AP.
Sunfire Cape is actually fine, all it needs is a less expensive combine cost. Some people would also like to see it put at 500 HP, 50 Armor, and I wouldn't argue against that, but all it
needs is a lower combine cost.