thats my main concern, rengar is a jungler will disappear with these nerfs, and as previously stated, I'm not saying that rengar isn't strong, or that his kit isn't good, im saying, once his burst of popularity goes away, there are WAAAAAY more champs that get banned in ranked right now, than rengar, not to mention his ultimate is almost entirely destroyed by oracle pots.

Thats my whole issue, I could understand if rengar was like, the most op champ, then by all means, nerf him to **** like they're going to, but he isn't, hes not even close to the most annoying champ there is, way more champs are more devestating than him, especially late game, where he falls off a bit, and now, even more so, so they're nerfing him where hes already weak, early and late game...thats just stupid. Like hes already a bad jungler early game, and gets splattered in team fights. Why make him even worse at jungling, and even worse at team fights. I'd rather they nerf late game W damage and AP scaling then his main jungling move (W) and (Q) as stated, its a 16 second slower jungle, and you'll come out with less health due to longer max ferocity build up times.

I agree here, too.

Make the AP worthless for anything over "incidental" AP, like a 0.2 AP ratio.

This is a reworded accidental double post, but may have said different things, or in a better way, took too long to write it to delete the post =P

Ya, thats my point (redragebar) is that essentially, they're not really balancing Rengar at all, they're nerfing him where he's already weak. He was meant to be jungler, he is currently a subpar jungler, he will become a BAD jungling choice after this nerf, being possibly one of the slowest junglers who was created for the role. The nerf to his early game Q means less ferocity, which means less heals, as well as bad early level ganks. The nerf to his W will get him beat up EVEN MORE in the jungle and in lane, something he is already pre-nerf, known for.

I would much rather them leave his Q alone, nerf the damage on his W, keep (or even add to) the defensive component, and do away with the ap scaling to 20%, if any AP scaling at all. This would mean less damage from his aoe in teamfights, and no more AP tanky Rengar (which, from what I heard, is where this all started) and put rengar right where he should be, a deadly, single target assassin duelist. Which, as a champion I feel is more than fair, rengar can obliterate one person, but in a team fight, thats a worthy reward for someone that has to jump in the middle of a team. Rengar is horribly susceptible to crowd control, and his ultimate is destroyed by oracle potions. and he really only has damage to HOPEFULLY take out one squishy from the fight, and even that isn't for certain. He's is fast, but he certainly cannot destroy like some other bruisers, so there is no need to nerf someone, that, comparatively, is really not overpowered in any way other than AP scaling of his W.

Please, if you support this idea, to reform rengar into a the way he should be played, and not this stupid, well he can still be an ap tank (cause they haven't even changed that) rengar, and make him a sustainable hi burst single target assassin duelist, then please, please, pass the link to this thread on, I'm not sure if thats how it works with riot (it seems to be a very, fans have a big role in how things pan out, style community) and we can make a fun, fair champion out of Rengar.

Anyone who cares to argue the side that he needs all these nerfs, or any nerfs, please, by all means, lets debate it, because Rengar is my new favorite champ and I know I can prove that he does not need to get nerfed into the dirt like this. He is definitely not on the top 10 needs to be nerfed list.

I agree. Nerfing his survivability is the last thing Riot should do. Kill the AP scaling and (maybe) revert the Q damage to its pre-fix state. Rengar's early game will be untenable against any kind of competent team with the changes as they are now. Enemy junglers will have a field day with him pre-6.

Thats my point right, I think to be fair, a great rework to him would be this.

Keep his Q the way it is in live play now (6/6/6/6/6)
Change AP scaling on his W to 20%. Leave the base damage (as its needed for that level 2 jungling) where it is - This might sound stupid, but I would say since this AP is taking such a huge nerf (although intended) Make the defense bonus length increase per point (3/3.5/4/4.5/5) As late game rengar really is squishy as all hell, and this isn't really by any means an OP boost, it just allows him to do what he was designed to do jump into the middle of a team fight.
And everything else is fine =D

I don't feel his Q damage should be nerfed at all, and my reasoning behind this is that, when compared to other champions his damage is very relative, well, lets use 2 examples to put this into perspective.

Champion #1arius-Darius is a champion that, the longer he fights someone, the more damage he does, it is not uncommon for darius to split a champ in half, from roughly 50% health for dem squishies, and even against tanks his true damage is unbearable.
Champion #2:Lee Sin-Lee sin is great in team fights, he can guard carries, slow down enemies movement and attacks, but furthermore, has really good, consistent damage, whether a team fight lasts 10 seconds, or 30, lee sin will always put out good consistent damage.

Now Rengar works like this, he gets in fight, either by pre stacking, or using his ultimate, to get up to 5 stacks, in which, most cases, popping a fast double Q. Now this does deal amazing burst, but the burst is just that, quick very intense burst, then his damage is abysmal. To the point where you're better off leaving the fight after your defensive CD is gone (which is only 3 seconds long) than trying to stay and build up your ferocity in battle, because you A) probably just got focused B)Every single move is on cooldown.

So graphically you can see that while his damage is high in that 3 second burst window, thats really all the damage he is going to do, and more damage sustainable champs like darius, olaf, and renekton will beat him if they withstand his initial burst.

So they get to get rid of AP Tankgar, AP Explode your whole teamgar, and now Rengar will be an efficient single target assassin/dueslist (because with all that applied, big bruisers and tanks will still kick rengars ass, trust me, it happens now, and not with great difficulty)

Rengar is one of the most fun champions to hunt and jungle with (as well as being particularly rewarding to those who lack achievement in their daily lives). I thoroughly support this thread!

Also... AP Rengar severely falls off mid-late game regardless of how fed he is, much worse than AP Shaco, there is no need to nerf his Battle Roar for AD Rengar players!

I would say nerf it, just because, people are crying, and people really shouldn't be building AP rengar, its a cheese build. I thank all of you for your support. and hopefully we can actually come together to get rengar to where he needs to be to be a fun competitive champion. I hope that they will nerf his W AP scaling, hopefully make it last longer, either by point per level, or just increase it to 5, because, well, early game rengar is just a really crappy jungler early game, and his defense is totally lacking late game. So it would be a good trade off, lose some damage, for a bit more sustainable defense (3second duration -> 5 seconds) Because rengar really does lack the jungle potential that he was supposed to have, Riot presented him to be the Apex Jungle Predator, when in actuality he is a tier 3 jungler at best, not really besting or even comparing to any competitive jungler.

Does anyone know how to get this thread infront of the eyes of Riot?

Just tried jungle rengar and you can't start with boots and 3x pots anymore if you want to gank at level 3
you'll have to do it with bots and cloth armor.

oh trust me, I know, its brutal

Simple solution.


Battle Roar ( W ) - magic damage reduced to 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 (+65% AP) from 75 / 120 / 165 / 210 / 255

Battle Roar ( W ) - bonus armor and magic resist reduced to 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 (+65% AP) from 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60

And buff his base armor by 1.

The reason his W is getting nerfed is not just due to AP Rengar, its also due to the amount of tankiness and AOE damage he gets from it.
Through my change you are forced to either spec into W or take a single point, it keeps his Armor/Mr the same at early ranks to keep his Jungle the same but makes his late game weaker.

Rengar is a bit too powerful but the nerf that Riot has planned is far too harsh on Rengar as a whole, many Top Laners have significantly more tankiness than him from base stats so hitting the armor gain on his W so hard makes his laning phase too squishy and passive.