Originally Posted by Venova

Let me sum up what seems to be a majority of the sentiments:

We love the new map
We love the old map
We want them both, not one replacing the other - at least keep the "old" TT available as a custom game option. No matchmaking, keep that for the new TT/SI map, since it would be confusing to newer players to encounter 2 versions of the "same" map, and keeping the old TT as custom would prevent fracturing because most people will probably play the new map. But the old one can stay there for customs for dedicated the TT communtity who loves the map.

Originally Posted by Nicksiren

I strongly disagree. Many of the new TT changes create less competitive/strategic gameplay, namely in the form of lack of wards and layout changes for Vilemaw and mid jungle.

I don't understand how some players think that lack of vision (wards) = a more aggressive map. The lack of vision promotes defensive laning -- any competitive player knows not to take unnecessary risks. When you watch pro matches do they forgo wards? No. They buy absurd amounts and for good reason. Simple put: unskilled gambles = unskilled gameplay, which by extension = less competitive map.

I'm not going to get too in depth with the layout changes here so I'll just touch on a few points. As mentioned earlier by me in the OP, the lack of jungling near Vilemaw creates less strategic juking/guessing when he is being fought by any enemy team. Since there is only one entrance on each side to the monster objective he will only be realistically contested in 1 scenario: after a dominant team fight. This takes even more away from junglers as this is the only monster buff on the map. The lack of routes mid map also create less diverse gameplay.

These two points alone (tentatively) create a much less competitive setting. With the removal of many of the strategic decisions and options available for players matches seem to be very derivative even at these early stages of the map testing. Tactics seem to be few and straightforward.

Originally Posted by Vesh

Hai guys.

I'm not going to try and tell you how you should think or what to feel about the reworked TT. I'm a high elo dominion player and also diamond in 3s. I've dedicated a lot of time over the last few months to learning and becoming good at our non-SR game modes. I'm not a designer or on either the dominion or TT team, but I can tell you as a player that the new mode really doesn't feel like dominion to me (and I LOVE dominion).

Are there a lot of things that still aren't perfect about the new TT? Sure. That's why we're releasing this as a beta. We read all of your comments on here and really do value your feedback. Change is hard and I know there will be a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the new changes. People see the altars and immediately think of them as capture and hold points like Dominion when really the gamemode doesn't feel anything like Dominion (to me, at least - like I said I don't want to tell you what you should think).

That said, posts like this one are extremely constructive and allow us to analyze what you guys like and don't like about the new mode. I know it's tempting to post things like "omg the new map mode sucks it's dominion/TT hybrid" but those really aren't constructive and don't engage us in conversation.

Instead, try to specifically outline what mechanics and changes make you feel that way. This post does a great job of approaching the specific elements that the OP doesn't like yet. Obviously, the map isn't even out on Live yet but as you guys have a chance to play it more, try to be constructive with feedback! The OP's post is a good example of what we're looking for ^_^

Originally Posted by innervation

Which part?

In addition to what Goggris wrote about starting gold, this change also increases champion diversity by giving mages the tools they need to farm in lane while being durable / speedy (boots cloth pots // d ring cloth pot // d ring hp pots, etc)

While shrines do have negatives, nothing he wrote was untrue.

Wards I agree with 1000%. My team won so many dragons > games by just buying more pink wards, and being the second / fourth / sixth to place them. I'm a little worried this will make sight items mandatory, but it's a trade I think I'm willing to make.

Originally Posted by Vesh

Hai guys.

I'm not going to try and tell you how you should think or what to feel about the reworked TT. I'm a high elo dominion player and also diamond in 3s. I've dedicated a lot of time over the last few months to learning and becoming good at our non-SR game modes. I'm not a designer or on either the dominion or TT team, but I can tell you as a player that the new mode really doesn't feel like dominion to me (and I LOVE dominion).

Are there a lot of things that still aren't perfect about the new TT? Sure. That's why we're releasing this as a beta. We read all of your comments on here and really do value your feedback. Change is hard and I know there will be a lot of knee-jerk reactions to the new changes. People see the altars and immediately think of them as capture and hold points like Dominion when really the gamemode doesn't feel anything like Dominion (to me, at least - like I said I don't want to tell you what you should think).

That said, posts like this one are extremely constructive and allow us to analyze what you guys like and don't like about the new mode. I know it's tempting to post things like "omg the new map mode sucks it's dominion/TT hybrid" but those really aren't constructive and don't engage us in conversation.

Instead, try to specifically outline what mechanics and changes make you feel that way. This post does a great job of approaching the specific elements that the OP doesn't like yet. Obviously, the map isn't even out on Live yet but as you guys have a chance to play it more, try to be constructive with feedback! The OP's post is a good example of what we're looking for ^_^

Originally Posted by Brodhi

1) If you are playing defensively, you are letting the enemy team have VIlemaw control and control over your altar/jungle. You can argue about that all you want, but having played Shadow Isles, I can say for a fact that you need to be active in the jungle even if you aren't the jungler. All 3 members of the team needs to be a walking ward so that you know where the enemy team is at all times.

2) Vilemaw placement is perfect. On TT, Dragon was so close to top lane that ADCs could solo him at certain stages of the game. Jayce could Q him in Cannon stance then Q over in Hammer stance. That is overpowered. Not only that, but you could gank top lane FROM Dragon pit (if you are a blink champion), which I think was the reason for putting Vilemaw so far north.

There isn't any jungle by Baron, yet there isn't any "guessing" when an enemy team is doing it (since you like to bring up what competitive 5s players do as if it relates to 3s in any form). You'll know when the enemy team is doing Vilemaw, trust me. When you get aced? Vilemaw. When all 3 of you are taking their altar? Vilemaw. It's just like Baron, and for that I am happy. It was silly to have a boss on TT with such an important buff be soloable by almost ever bruiser after level 6.

On the context of the Jungle, I went ahead and made a diagram using the map Riot has given ( http://i.imgur.com/I65jQ.jpg ). The red circles/lines are ways the enemy jungler can gank you. The orange lines are escape paths for the laner. I do not think Wards are needed, as there are such a low amount of open gank points compared to old TT, where top lane had 5+.