If anyone likes what i've written here, please bump/1+ so riot can check it out! Thank you.


I'm calling it Shadow Treeline (ST) because I don't like calling it Twisted Treeline and we need a way to refer to it in this thread. It's a completely new map and we should move on from TT, regardless of what riot wants to call the map and what all the angered people in the TT forum are now saying.

This will be an in-depth look at the new Treeline from a player who exclusively played Twisted Treeline in the past, and am really happy (with minor exception) with the new map. You can take my write-up with a grain of salt, considering it's not like I'm a recognized player or anything, and that's understandable. (and honestly, the only reason i'm a junior is because I play more than I post around here... I just feel this is important enough to post about) I hope that the actual writing in this will prove to you that my popularity doesnt matter (and may even make me popular in the process! )

I feel as though the Neophobia associated with the new map is due to a lack of understanding of the way the new map is supposed to work, or rather, are unsatisfied with the way the map works in general. I'm here to say that this shouldnt be shunned, it should be welcomed. This map is a (close to) happy medium between Dominion and Summoners Rift. First I'll talk about some pros and cons and what people (from what I've seen) currently aren't happy with;

First I want to target some really obscene statements by most players which obviously aren't thought through and have demeaned the idea of the map.



General Populace Complaints:

"Why aren't there any wards!? This is ridiculous!

Well, I'd have to say the reason there aren't any wards should be spectacularly obvious. First of all, to have wards on the map would destroy the baseline fundamentals of the gameplay. It takes away from the constant pressure of opposing ganks, makes the gamplay overall more static, and focuses the game on lane farming rather than fighting. Why is this bad? Because:

1) The unknown in jungle makes it more rewarding to roam. You aren't going to be stopped by a simple ward - intelligent players should know when to push and when to back off. This pressure rewards intelligent play, because overly-aggressive players can be stopped by smart players, but intelligent ganks on unsuspecting players can win games.

2) Making the game more static detracts from the highly aggressive way the game is supposed to be played. It leans closer to Summoner's Rift and makes the game last longer, which is counter productive to the fundamental idea of the map in the first place.

3) Farming is important, but shouldn't be AS important in a game where fighting is supposed to take place all the time.

"I -hate- these altars! What is this, Dominion!?

First of all... thats not a "dominion" capture point. You simply stand on it. You aren't committed to a capture animation and can even lock the point while attacking. The altars are a step up from having your buffs be based on jungle creatures. Why? Because those jungle creeps are easy to take, and only makes the game more even and static. Thats why normal Jungle Creeps are relatively useless other than for farming as a jungle. Remember, we're trying to get -away- from that idea of gameplay while not completely making it a feeding frenzy, like dominion.

By having altars, you're rewarded for doing your job and making sure you capitalize on everything your side of the map has to offer, -BUT- there is a High risk and reward proponent of the map by having another altar able to be taken. Do you wanna risk a teamfight to get 10% AP and MP? They can see you, so it's obvious you're impeding on their territory. Adding this component to the gameplay only propagates more fighting and aggression over stability and defensive playstyles.


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Now, I wanna get into some things I find -off- on the map. I dont necessarily believe anything is broken, or unfixable, or needs to be changed as a raw idea. However, there are things that could be changed slightly and benefit greatly. (this is a BETA, afterall, there have to be some things off. And personally, I'd rather have a public testing grounds to really fine-tune a close to finished product rather than deal with the old TT until they polish and shine the new one)

These things include:

Vilemaw

Why is there such a tanky, high damage, baron-esque creature on a map where your supposed to be moving fast as a team and taking things over and beating eachother up? Such a hard to kill (It takes a level 12+ team to take on Vilemaw, on average) boss only slows down the process of winning over the game through the bloody entrails of your opponents. (Plus, I thought these games were supposed to be shorter in the first place)

Don't get me wrong, however. I believe level 6ish is way too short of a wait to be soloing a 300 gold creature with +damage stats. However, I think the stats of Vilemaw could be tweaked to make him more viable in the idea your going for.

I also happen to believe that the benefits of killing him are in general superfluous to the game-flow.

Instead of the current rewards, I think you should change it to something similar to that listed below, and also make vilemaw less devastatingly hard to kill at lower levels. (Feel free to discuss/critique these numbers):

Rewards:

- 170g
- Same HP/MP regen
- + 1.1 Attack Speed per level (19.8 at level 18)
- + 1.1 Cooldown Reduction per level (19.8 at level 18)
- + .6 Total % Damage per level (10% at level 18)

Why? Because of multiple reasons.

First of all, it makes turning the tide/breaking the steel wall of a turtle significantly better near the end of a game.

Secondly, it makes taking the Vilemaw integral to gameplay, even at an early level. The snowball wouldnt be nearly as much early game (which is why i think you made the gold lower and the boss harder in the first place, correct me if I'm wrong), but still a good enough buff to want at any decent level, all without breaking the game.

And finally, simply because I feel a majority of the players feel Vilemaw is relatively useless to have in the current game-state because he packs too much damage and doesn't give you enough oomph to want to secure it.

The Jungle

If you guys wanted to give jungle a purpose in the new TT, why does it seem like you guys made it absolutely useless to jungle consistently. In the current game-state, I feel like jungle is something you should make use of at lulls in the laning and fighting phase, and I don't think that was what you guys wanted to have in store for the new TT.

Here is how I propose to fix it. It's really rather simple:

Extend the wall above wraiths a bit higher to make it less easy to take, and make the wraith at the bottom right/left corners of jungle give a slight slow buff. This gives junglers a slow to take out a laner with at low levels, propagating a reason to have an unknown player roaming in the jungle endlessly. It's rather pointless otherwise, because most characters don't have the pure stopping power to kill someone in lane, especially with everyone running flash.

Also, make changes to the jungle so that ganking top isn't nearly impossible without being spotted by an opposing jungler. It's rather silly that walking through the bush to top is pretty much in plain sight of 2 jungle camps.

The Altars

Note: I do -not- believe the altars were a negative addition to the map, INCLUDING the speed buff. These are simply some things I feel are off about them, if only slightly.

Altars seem too easy to just walk in and take with a team of 3. By the time every ally gets there, its already to late, in most cases. I only believe that there should be some changes that would prevent this.

Some possibilities could be:

-Give a negative physical/magic aura to any non-allied players entering a CAPTURED altar. Note, this doesn't effect Neutral altars.

-Make the flat time to capture an already taken altar high enough to force a teamfight when you aren't taking an altar when you should be.

-Make the opening on the altar steps face the top right/left of jungle towards the base, rather than the way it does now. This makes the altar a killbox and prevents you from just waltzing in there.

Blackfire Torch

I dont think this item is as accessible to the general mage populace as it should be. Even on champs like Eve, Brand and Singed, which seem to be strong users of the blackfire torch, aren't benefited enough by it - and for the most part I dont feel as though its well placed even on champs which have it in their recommended build. I think this one is also a relatively simple fix.

Make spells while you have this item add a stackable mark to the opponent:


"Unique Passive: Your spells add 1 Blackfire Mark to the opponent causing them to burn for an additional 2(or perhaps 3?)% of the target's current Health in magic damage over 2 seconds (effect halved for AoE and and damage over time). Stacks up to three times."


They can be cleansed, which makes up for the stackability and increase in damage, and instantly makes more options available, such as champs who use more burst. It even makes it more effective in general for characters who use burst damage. Since it has catalyst (an early-esque game item for most mages), I simply feel it should have more oomph to compensate for being practically forced to go for that sustain early as a mage.


I also feel that there are many characters who shouldnt be able to use this item as a passive way to do major amounts of damage. Tanks being a huge example. Anyone with an aura or an aoe will be killing everyone for 2.5%/s of their life -all- game, while being practically unkillable in the current game state.

Grez's Spectral Lantern

My only complaint with this item is that +2 damage and less overall gold cost doesn't feel like enough to compensate for the utility loss of 12% lifesteal.

Tanks, A general bone to pick:

I feel as though tanks were supposed to be put slightly to rest in this new game-state, however they are still particularly strong, even with the new items. I feel that perhaps rather than nerfing general tanky items and replacing -those-, you should be nerfing the outlying cause of the strength of tanks: Ability to live through burst. Mages and Assassins are made less and less effective by Tanks, which is their job, however -especially- in S/T-T, where there aren't a large amount of characters who don't get tanky mid/end-game, the effect is exponential. You don't have an ADC or a Support to pop most of the time, and thus there isn't much point in running those archetypes.

I think that nerfing armor and magic resistance would have been a better opt-out than nerfing health. This is just an overall viewpoint. Feel free to correct me.




And thats it. Other than that, I really really like the new map. Feel free to criticize, praise, or do whatever you'd like in response to this thread. Just no raging or flaming, thanks! Please +1 if its good enough, and feel free to also add your own general thoughts that you think might be added to the OP. Cheers.

Nerfring armor and magic resist doesn't solve anything. Plus you're suggesting a universal nerf for only this map. There are ways to counter heavy armored teams. Maybe make it less expensive to get to those items or make it more worthy to buy them early on instead? If you nerf armor and magic resist, it becomes easy to kill tanks. What purpose does a tank have if they can't soak damage?

I understand your frustration. My friends and I faced that issue last night against a tanky team. I think they shouldn't restrict certain items that could help counter tanks. Or give us an item early on that can help counter.

I just cut out the parts of this last post that I wanted to reply to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squallian As a precursor... Seriously, why would you quote an entire word document. Your just cluttering this page up. Please edit your post and remove the quote. You didnt even single anything out. :/ Your first point: This is quote from the Red in the TT2 faq. End of argument. 2nd: Yes, I watch them. They have a high emphasis on creep score, and for the most part, first blood doesnt happen for a long time. This map is the opposite while keeping a laning presence unlike Dominion. It's, put simply, a hybrid of a SR match and a Dominion match, without true capture points. 6th: This was always the goal of twisted treeline, bro. If you want another 3v3 farming map, it shouldnt be anything like the old twisted treeline anyways. The old map was broken on various levels. If you want another 3v3 farming map, make petitions asking for a new 3v3 map altogether, not bashing the new map and asking for the old, worse one back.

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