Originally Posted by KlunkTheSpaceCat
How this change would be implemented and how it would affect matchmaking is completely unknown. Yes, it is possible that in order to shorten queues there could be an increase in the range of Elo levels in any given game. It's very hard to say how much of an increase, just like it's very hard to say how much longer we might have to wait in queue. But I think that it's a good enough idea that it would increase the enjoyment of current players and serve to lessen the difficult learning curve for new players.
Okay first and foremost, you simply can't argue that it's impossible to have any idea on how queue times would be effected and what impact it would have on match-making. To make this claim, you have to have zero understanding of how match-making works.
Just because I mention Elo doesn't mean that normals are immune to this, because normals have a hidden Elo. Riot wants matches to be fun, and in order for the match to be as fun as possible for both teams, it needs to be a close competitive match. As such, there is a hidden Elo for normal matches so that the relative skill level of all the players is as close as possible. It's used for match-making.
Right, so here's a rough idea of how match-making currently works (in a system with no role option). Let's say I'm a 1200 player. I queue up. Match-making tries to find 9 other players that are 1200 Elo. That's where it starts. It starts just by looking for other players in the queue with identical Elo. As time passes, that scope broadens. It will look for 1200. Then it will look for 1190-1210. Then it will look for 1180-1220. Now currently, especially if you're pretty average skill level, the scope doesn't have to increase by very much to fill the lobby out. In a lot of cases, the lowest Elo player is only about 100 Elo below the highest Elo, and that's not a very big skill gap. Everyone else in that lobby is somewhere in between.
But let's talk about a role-queuing system. Let's say you're a 1200 level player and you're queuing for Mid. Okay, there are tons of mids, so you probably already are given one of the longest queue time. The first thing the system will do is match you with people very close to your level. It will probably easily find another 1200 mid, and a couple 1200 tops to go on either team. The scope for ADC will probably be pretty narrow too. It may be 1150-1250. Jungle may be in the same neighborhood. It just depends, and it doesn't really matter. For these 4 roles, match-making very well may not be any different then it already is...
But now we have to find a support. By the time it gets to 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 minutes gone by looking for a support player, the Elo range it's looking in can get pretty massive. Now, if it were just going to stick two 1800 supports against each other in a 1200 match, well, that'd be okay for all the 1200 players, but the 1800 supports would hate having to play that match. But the thing is, that's not even what's going to happen. The range gets expanded upwardly and downwardly as time passes. It's just as likely that one team gets an 1800 support while the other team gets a 600 support.
Now one team has a player who is so much better than everyone else that he can potentially single-handedly carry the game (even from the support position) while the other team has a player who is so much worse than everyone else that he becomes a major liability and could potentially single-handedly cost his team the match.
And if you think complaints about getting bad teammates are bad now, just wait until you screw with match-making with a system that takes so long to put teams together that there's no reasonable expectation that everyone is approximately the same Elo as there is now.
And this is partly speculative. There's not a way to know EXACTLY how it will work unless it's beta tested or something, but you can't simply write the issue off entirely. That kind of defeats the point of even having the discussion. If your counterpoint to my point is "we can't know unless we beta test it" then we're not having a debate.
We can take what we already know about match-making, take everyone's admittance that role-queuing will increase the time it takes matches to be made, and make some reasonable expectations on the repercussions of increasing queue times.
And I, for one, would much rather play a role other than my preferred role in order to have a competitive match than to work in a system that guarantees me my favorite role, but means matches are less competitive (and therefore less fun).
Originally Posted by KlunkTheSpaceCat
If there were two solo/duo queue options, one for role-based queuing and one for the current system, which do you think more people would choose?
I don't know. I think giving the option for both is actually significantly worse than forcing one or the other (for queue time reasons primarily).