Originally Posted by Blazing Pascal
This is my biggest concern with the new Jungle. I have thoroughly tested the new jungle, and wrote my thoughts on everything here if anyone cares to see: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2815069
In short though, the jungle role has definately been nerfed. Not a ton, but this definitely hurts the jungle role no question. Anyone who has thoroughly tested it will tell you that is true at its current state.
If Riot feels they need to do this to balance the game, then fine... However, I wish they wouldn't sell it as a buff.
At its current state, this is not true. And in fact, by the time laning phase is over, you will have aquired about exactly the same amount of gold as on live, but will have spent more gold on pots, not been able to gank and aquire gold through kills/assists, and you have put a significant amount of gold into stats that only help you jungle, and do not help you vs other champs. Not to mention the removal of HoG which many tank junglers relied on for extra gold in the "past".
This is not a rage post. I totally understand Riot wanting to remove the significant impact of top lane ganks and the ease at which many junglers can do it. If they want us to stay farming though and not get as much kill/assist gold, they need to improve the gold in the jungle.
It is a fact that you will get more gold in the new jungle and that the jungle items are pretty strong through the game (stats vs gold).
You don't get really more gold if you theoreticly farm the jungle on live and PBE till the 11th minute.
BUT on live, nobody can farm the jungle. The gold gos to the lanes after the first clear (Bot lane golems, mid laners often start around lvl 4-5 to take wraiths, top has pushed and doesn't know what to do, so he goes and takes the wolves).
On live, a jungler lives from g/10, ganks and now and then some jungle camps.
On the PBE, the jungler has the first 10 minutes to farm his jungle.
It is not a change that effects numbers, but playstyle.
Less ganks mean more offensive lanes (top lane won't need to go into your jungle, cause they overpushed).
Mid will have problems taking wraiths and if they do (not before lvl 6), they will probably lose some CS in the lane (what could result in getting the same amount of gold for mid lane, but stealing your jungle).
ADC + Support will lose some HP when doing golems, especially cause life steal is more expensive nad harder to get now. It will also cost them too much time, if their lane doesn't get pushed to their inner turret.
What is the difference between a jungle you can farm for 10 minutes and one you get to farm for 4 minutes and then you get only 50% out of it?
So after 4 minutes, you get already 100% more gold out of the new jungle if you do it right.
Sure, the chances for ganks are lower and you need to think about ganks again. But perma ganking was an illness of the game. It was stupid.
You can still gank, and the result I saw till now are way stronger ganks after 6-10 minutes. Also the amount of buff control goes up again from each jungler and you can fight an enemy laner 1v1 throughout nearly the whole game (problem only at the first clear till you get B for more items).
Think about S2 and who is a great jungler now?
11-12 champs that can really jungler (Shyv actually not too great, shen and malhpite are normally better top, amumu is situational, cause when he gets counter jungled, he will be useless for the first minutes).
In the end there were around 8 really great junglers (Mundo, Noc, Maokai, Lee, Skarner, ...).
What was the thing they all did? Gank and tank. Be a second supporter.
People say that they get a low amount of gold in the jungle, but if you calculate it through, the lanes don't get that much more money (~10%). The only problem in the S2 jungle was that the lanes stole everything they could get and it was way too easy to do.
2825g is the amount Stonewall got after 11 minutes.
475 is from the beginning and 912 through the pasive g/10.
1387 gold comes from other sources than creeps and monsters.
=> 1438 gold comes from monsters.
A laner gets around 20 (19.5 actually) gold per CS (a bit less now after lane gold was nerfed a bit for more passive gold income).
If you are really good you can make 5 CS per wave (making more is possible, but not likely in the lane, and most people only get 4-5, even pros).
So you get 200 gold every minute (last hitting starts at 2 minutes when the creeps reach the lane, not when they spawn).
So you have 9 minutes for last hitting.
=> 1800 gold.
Jungler: 2825 gold
Laner: 3187 gold (-90 probably for reduced creep gold in the lane => 3097)
Passive gain of these values: 1387 gold
The difference is there, but the laners fight all the time against the enemy, and the jungle is pretty safe (laners invading is risky without the vision).
I think Riot should increase the gold in the jungle a bit, but
+2 for big wraith
+3 for big wolve
+3 for big golem
would be enough.
And that amount doesn't make a too big difference (the increase would be there to make counter jungling a tick more attractive).