Originally Posted by WhackedRak
I think 15% would be fair.. still comparable to BT.
The old on-hit DoT was literally doing nothing. I think for legacy purposes, in the past it was understood that all grievous wound type effects were paired with a DoT. But 4 magic damage / sec was only slightly negating health regen. It was never going to kill them or anything, so it was just an extraneous stat.
The old executioner's really did give great stats, and was really quite powerful, I would even say overpowered, for the price. The problem, the reason almost nobody ever bought it, was because of where it liked to be placed in builds. It was a cheap item that gave great laning stats with the damage over time and heal reduction active. But almost everyone who built it found that their last hitting started sucking hard, to the point that you couldn't do the classic a-tower-a or tower-tower-a lasthit combo. You ^need^ that lasthitting power early, which is why you always see doran's or a BF or the new vamp scepter on carries as their first items alongside boots. If you got it later, it's a cheap item that doesn't build into anything.
The DoT was actually way better than you're giving it credit for. It's 36 magic damage every one-autoattack poke you do, almost as much as a wit's end proc. Sure, if that was your only DoT, you couldn't rely on it to kill near-death people due to health regen. But it's 36 damage, and if you do have a DoT on them (like ignite), it's 36 more magic damage you can count on when you're looking at their half a health pip as they run.
What they should have done with new executioner's is one of two options. First, don't give it an upgrade, but give it an effect that helps in last hitting, like bonus damage versus things below 25% health. That would let people who get it not fall hopelessly behind in ability to last hit, which was the main reason not to get it before. The second, nerf it a little, but give it a late game upgrade. You could then get it after your infinity edge without feeling bad. It shouldn't replace bloodthirster, so the upgrade shouldn't be AD based. I feel a neat mechanic with such an item would be for it to increase your crit chance based on your target's missing health. I dunno, maybe that's a bad idea. But the point is, old executioner's needed either its early last hitting issues solved, or an upgrade that made it worth getting once laning is about over
Also what the heck is with the new one's build path? Avarice blade is awesome to build something out of, yes, and subsidizes the finished item's cost... but it's building into a relatively cheap item. You might as well just hang on to avarice blade, forget executioner's, and save it for something like shiv. But what if you get the long sword? Then yes, great, your early last hitting is intact... but you're hanging on to a long sword. Might as well build that into the new vamp scepter, which is effectively 50 gold cheaper than the old vamp scepter with a long sword for the exact same stats, and people got vamp scepter all the time back then. Its build path is downright weird.
I know we can't really revert the executioner's changes, now, due to vamp scepter changes. And while I miss the old one, I'm okay with that. The problem is that we need an item to shut down mundo ults and voli passives and gunblade stacking akali and jax with good timing, but the new one is by no means cutting it. We need a longer effect, and we need not to hurt our build too much by dipping into it to counter those super-heals.