TLDR - Remove Revive.

Most of the time dying is bad. However, there are certain situations where dying is the best choice due to the strength of Revive. No summoner spell should make suicide the optimal decision.

One such scenario is being low health at the windmill fight. You can either back or suicide to revive.

If you back that takes 4 seconds and a long time to run to the windmill.

If you die you spend 0 seconds to get back to base, you get to windmill much faster (speed boost), and you are stronger for the fight because of the hp gain.

If the fight is close backing is the wrong choice because your team will lose the windmill fight before you return.


Although Revive takes skill to use properly it rewards counter intuitive play and is only countered by itself. Revive should be removed.

If you have Karthus, sometimes dying is better than backing. Remove Karthus.

I agree with the op, the windmill fight is a revive zerg fest. But it seems everyone is in love with revive.

Yolt

Gunna have to agree. Every time I pick leona, I pick a target, cc them so my team actually grows a pair and fights, die, revive, and repeat. Almost always works.

Your argument is a bit flawed. That's like saying you shouldn't play bait with Flash or Exhaust, or shouldn't use Cleanse prematurely for the CC reduction, or shouldn't wait for allies to be hurt before using Heal. All spells have variance in their usage, even the binary ones. There are penalties to getting yourself killed intentionally. They are not always immediate and are often ignored, which is the fault of the player.

Removing Revive and doing nothing about Garrison would make only about 20 champions viable in Dominion. 3 supports 1 aoe cc and 10 Garrisons, with double Maokais in bot lane every game. Pushing would be wrong, skirmishing would be wrong, and killing would be pointless, if even possible. First team to win the windmill fight would hold 3-2 for 10 minutes or more. Revive is basically what keeps the turtle-fest meta at bay.

Revive is probably going to drop the speed boost in S3 anyways due to the new boots, and the hp boost will probably become the new spec.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aroyok If you have Karthus, sometimes dying is better than backing. Remove Karthus.

Garrison is OP but that is not justification for keeping Revive.

There have been many good suggestions for adjusting Garrison (removing the "turret healing" ability being my favorite), they could just pick one.