I see the phrase OP get tossed around a lot, especially here in the Champion Feedback forum, and I think some people have different definitions of what it means for something to be OP, so I have a few questions:

1. What does it mean for a champion to be OP?

2.What is champion balance, exactly?

3.Give me one example of a champion (in the past or now) that you think was/is OP, and state your reasoning for why this was/is the case.

4. How does one compare two champions and determine their viability?

5. What makes a person a good judge of whether or not a champ is OP?

My hope is that we can get a good discussion here so that we can together lock down a definition and standards for calling a champion OP.

I think one of the reasons that reds don't take Champion feedback seriously or ever post here is that we as a community are unable to set proper standards for our feedback that would constitute high-quality, useful information.

Maybe this thread can push us in the right direction. A little self-reflection can go a long way.

Thanks for reading, and I hope to see your thoughts below

-Absolute 42

apparently its having a high probability of winning against low ELO lol

personally I like to think that its something that with perfect play cannot really be dealt with if lol was ever "solved" so to speak

An OP champ must be one who can do everything, therefore Jayce: good stats, cc, speed boost, high burst damage, escape mechanisms, range AND melee.

No champion besides him is OP IMO.

1. What does it mean for a champion to be OP?
Uncounterable, TOO strong in his field, outclassing everyone in his/her role without a counter.

2.What is champion balance, exactly?
balance amongst champions?

3.Give me one example of a champion (in the past or now) that you think was/is OP, and state your reasoning for why this was/is the case.
First edition heimerdinger. Stacking minions op.

4. How does one compare two champions and determine their viability?
They really don't I guess.

5. What makes a person a good judge of whether or not a champ is OP?
How well they understand basic concepts of MOBA's.

1: I would define OP literally, any champion who is above the baseline of power is "overpowered". However, in a game like LoL it's very hard to define that baseline. I think the only reason people should be worried about a champion being overpowered is if that champion substantially outperforms other champions of a similar play style.

2: Champion balance would be the baseline described above. If every champion matched that baseline perfectly, the game would be balanced. Obviously perfect balance is not reasonably attainable.

3: While Lee Sin stands out for me as being overpowered, the primary role that I think needs more balancing is support. In a properly played game there are certain supports, like Soraka, that can simply outperform other supports. The support role is a little bit touchy though, since it depends on the current meta.

4: It's really difficult to compare two champions with different roles/playstyles. Champions should only directly be compared to each other if they have the same role (Bruiser, Tank, AP Mid, etc.).

5: I generally go with the beliefs of successful tournament-level players. Anyone who plays the game for money (or other prizes with significant monetary value) is qualified to make judgements about the balance of the game. As I have stated above, I feel that Lee Sin and Soraka are overpowered. However, since I have never participated in a significant high-level LoL event, my opinions on these champions are not worth much.

One thing I would like to add though: there are obviously different levels of skill, and LoL seems even less forgiving than DotA to players with low skill levels. Champions like Evelynn and Darius may need to be altered from time to time if only to help out new players. In those situations the focus should not be on nerfing the champion (like Evelynn's brief stint as the widely acknowledged worst champion in LoL), but rather changing their gameplay (Darius could have his crazy high burst damage nerfed a bit in exchange for more mobility and/or utility).

1. For a champion to be in a state that makes them stronger than other comparable champions to the point that they have significantly higher win rates at high levels of play. For example: Ez, Graves, Lee Sin, Amumu, Taric.

More often than not, certain mechanics/abilities on a champion will be OP, without the champion as a whole being so: Darius ult, Syndra ult, Vlad pool, Vayne's W, scaling True damage, excessive amounts of penetration (as mechanics, these are incredibly overpowered, as there are no ways to counter them; sadly, riot has been adding more and more of these).
Often, combinations of champions will be able to resolve the issues of others to allow those overpowered mechanics to be capitalized upon, such as a Nunu jungle with a Darius top: When Nunu goes top to gank, he gives Darius more mobility and attack speed, while also slowing the opponents movement and attack speed, to the point that Darius can easily stick to them and kill get the 5 stacks on them for his ult to deal maximum damage for the kill.

2. Balance is the ideal scenario for a champion to be in, such that said champion is not overly powerful, and can be countered, but is still viable and fun to play. For example: Jax, Pantheon, Udyr, Warwick, MF, Kog'maw

3. Ezrael, Graves, and Lee Sin: Overly mobile for what they do and have such high burst in comparison to other champions that he is both highly forgiving for people that play him, and punishing for his opponents.

4. The champions fulfill the same role and can be compared based on how well each of those champions fulfills that role.

5. An understanding of the mechanics of the game, what is important, what isn't important, and how everything fits together.

Good thread.

At the moment it seems everyone is pretty strict about the so called "balance". Well OP is stuff like Old Xin and Old Jax who could literally 1v5. People with such capabilities are OP. As of now there is no champion here that could be said to be OP. Nothing, there are only champions that could be called strong but are also favoured by the meta we're in.

Real OP champions are those from the past, they don't exist anymore.

Good responses so far, guys. Keep em coming!

I'd also love it if people could upvote the answers they like and downvote the ones they don't. Maybe we'll reach a workable definition when we see which answers get the most support.



I don't pretend to know the answers to these questions, but I do want the Champion Feedback forum to be as good as it can be, and I think that this could be our first step, seeing as "OP" and "balance" are things found in almost every thread here.

Champions that are hard to deal with, usually a matter of their kit's mechanics which makes them hard to balance in the first place.

They have too much disruption like Alistar or Shen or too much initiation like Blitz or Amumu or too much damage and mobility like Katarina or Akali or damage sources that cannot be easily dealth with Irelia, Vayne, Darius or Damage and Farm potential that's hard to stop like Karthus or Anivia.

bump