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The current state of the jungle

 
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roboticaust ?? Member
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12-10-2012

Let me start off by saying, as exciting and fun as a lot of these changes have been, they have also been problematic. Namely jungle has had the life literally sucked out of it. There have been a plethora of negative feedback from the reignofgaming posters like stonewall and hashinshin, as well as other seasoned players. While the intent was to discourage your team from pilfering while increasing late game at the sake of sacrificing some early game, that has not been the case in the least bit.

First and foremost, the largest problem I've been seeing has a lot to do with items not being exclusive. I've been seeing mids grab the ap jungler item and steal nonstop from a few minutes in, I've seen all 3 lanes grab rubystones and spam wards everywhere preventing any and all ganks. All of these role exclusive additions have become whole team hindrances to the role itself. Not to mention, a few minutes in and the lanes are still well able to steal camps without much problem at all. Essentially our job as junglers has become harder with no real positive changes like we were promised all along.

Proposed solution: these two specific items (sightstone and machete) and their upgrades need a few changes to make the game less toxic to the jungle role. My thought is that sightstone should be lowered to a single ward usage and the cost reduced drastically as well so that supports can grab it at the start of the match. Once minions have spawned and the gold starts ticking, this item is no longer purchasable. This would discourage all lanes from buying a ruby on first back and just spamming wards everywhere. A few additional upgrades to the item for diversity sake might be worth looking into as well. Since it is a single ward item at start with these changes, it wouldn't be out of the question to make a vision ward upgrade that allows one vision ward at a time with an extreme limited use mechanic similar to how wriggles is.

As for machete, I think it too should have a similar mechanic. Once minions have spawned, you aren't allowed to buy one anymore; hence cutting you off from it and its upgrades. As a further discouragement for teams to pilfer camps early and heavily, I think minion gold in jungle without the item should be halved. Meaning your teammates can still get gold and play the catch up or get further ahead game once late game starts, but it's less likely they will want to steal earlier on if it's not worth the effort invested any longer. This would also cut off the option for laners to have wriggles, but truthfully this item has always been a bit toxic for laning in the same sense that these other two in question are now. Safety in lane should come at a price (75g) and last hitting shouldn't be made trivial with some gold spent either.

Now I do agree oracles needed the nerf it got, as did early pressure from jungle onto the lanes. However, totally nerfing the role entirely the way it has been is not very productive in the least. Our role is to apply pressure at the cost of our farm and levels, yet a lot of that has been taken away from us. Pressure entirely is being stripped away while our farm and levels remain hindered the same as they always were.

 
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Cyraknoss ?? Senior Member
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12-10-2012

Few points to make, if a laner is taking the spirit stone they're not helping themselves they're actually weakening themselves. This is not really a problem item wise it's just the players who are bad. Same thing for the "free wards" item, it gives a small amount of health and sucks up an item slot. No one other than support should be dropping the number of wards needed to make the item worth losing stats that are actually important to a laner. Neither of these items are actually problems, the people using them like that are hampering themselves even if it appears they're getting a benefit in the short term.

 
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FenrirStriker ?? Member
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12-10-2012

the current state of the game forces people to buy the machete... kinda forces people a rather long way out of their core build early on. while it forces a certain slow in a way for the jungle... it also kinda hurts the diversity of the jungle since well everyone is forced to start off with the machete everyone ends up building etheir spirit stone or wriggles somewhat early keeping them from their core longer aswell as to impact what little gank they can do pre level 6 since the jungler doesnt have boots to catch up, or the health to stay longer in a gank or proper cc for longer slow etc until he backsfor the first or second time in most case thus most of the time taking out the role of the jungler since his role is to help and disrupt other lanes. the machete pretty much benefits most those with attack speed and encourages counter jungle ALOT. so with that in mind people tend to go with counter jungling champs or attack speed champs.

 
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Sokolniki ?? Senior Member
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12-10-2012

I think a possible solution could be a "7th" item slot mechanic used with items that upgrade after reaching a certain condition, and once occupied by an item that was upgraded in this manner, it prevents other such items from "upgrading".

The Spirit Stones could be given a "nerfed" version as its purchased version, and its live version could be the upgraded version that goes in 7th slot. Eleisa's miracle could go into it, as could Maramuna and Seraph's Embrace after some tweaking. The sightstone could be given a nerf on charges and wards out, with an 7th slot upgrade upping the charges and total down at once count at the current levels "live"numbers, with a possible alternate build making vision wards available, though fewer in number.