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Black Cleaver Needs to Be Nerfed

View Poll Results: Do You Think That The Black Cleaver Should Be Fixed?
Yes 51 80.95%
No 12 19.05%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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ApolloMk2 ?? Senior Member
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12-11-2012

2 Black cleavers and your doing near true damage to everyone in the game. I have no idea how they didn't realize how broken this was before even putting it in the game in the first place but ffs FIX IT ALREADY!!

 
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TealNinje ?? Senior Member
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12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloMk2 View Post
2 Black cleavers and your doing near true damage to everyone in the game. I have no idea how they didn't realize how broken this was before even putting it in the game in the first place but ffs FIX IT ALREADY!!
Hi Randuin's Omen, what are you doing here? It's no fair that you COUNTER THE F OUT OF ALL MY BLACK CLEAVERS.

Christsakes, I want them to BUFF Black Cleaver because of all this ridiculous whining about it.

(And for the record, I haven't used the damn thing since the new patch. Too busy doing Iceborn Gauntlets Ezreal and Support Amumu or Support Elise.)

 
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DAHE11CAVIL ?? Junior Member
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12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TealNinje View Post
Hi Randuin's Omen, what are you doing here? It's no fair that you COUNTER THE F OUT OF ALL MY BLACK CLEAVERS.

Christsakes, I want them to BUFF Black Cleaver because of all this ridiculous whining about it.

(And for the record, I haven't used the damn thing since the new patch. Too busy doing Iceborn Gauntlets Ezreal and Support Amumu or Support Elise.)
While those are fun items to experiment with in supports and ad carry's but when people start to realise more and more how good the black cleaver is, it's going to be the only build in ranked and tbh randuins omen most likely won't help against a wukong with cleanse and 4 cleavers, he'll be tearing your armor to nothing WITH his ULT btw but i mean thats not the part im complaining about its just that its stackable i mean if there gonna do this why not make the deathcap normally give a 25% increase to ability power while there at it

 
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JustMyBassCannon ?? Senior Member
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12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAHE11CAVIL View Post
While those are fun items to experiment with in supports and ad carry's but when people start to realise more and more how good the black cleaver is, it's going to be the only build in ranked and tbh randuins omen most likely won't help against a wukong with cleanse and 4 cleavers, he'll be tearing your armor to nothing WITH his ULT btw but i mean thats not the part im complaining about its just that its stackable i mean if there gonna do this why not make the deathcap normally give a 25% increase to ability power while there at it
You're under an incorrect assumption that stacking Cleavers stacks the debuff cumulatively.

This is false for two reasons;
One, because mechanically the way stacking works is that there's a cap to how many of this kind of stack can be on a target. It doesn't matter how many sources are giving stacks, there's a stack limit. This means you can only get to 4 stacks of Cleaver, each worth 7.5% Armor Shred.
Two, because even if Cleaver is bugged to where it stacks the shred (which, I've seen it stacked several times and never seen the shred stack higher than 30%), it would still go through multiplicative scaling like all other sources of % shred/penetration, meaning that you could still never get someone all the way to 0% Armor by stacking Cleavers.

 
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DAHE11CAVIL ?? Junior Member
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12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMyBassCannon View Post
You're under an incorrect assumption that stacking Cleavers stacks the debuff cumulatively.

This is false for two reasons;
One, because mechanically the way stacking works is that there's a cap to how many of this kind of stack can be on a target. It doesn't matter how many sources are giving stacks, there's a stack limit. This means you can only get to 4 stacks of Cleaver, each worth 7.5% Armor Shred.
Two, because even if Cleaver is bugged to where it stacks the shred (which, I've seen it stacked several times and never seen the shred stack higher than 30%), it would still go through multiplicative scaling like all other sources of % shred/penetration, meaning that you could still never get someone all the way to 0% Armor by stacking Cleavers.
No the cleaver only stacks up to 4 times dont get me wrong i know that its only FOUR but with the new math they did for ArmPen then getting black cleavers with the 15 flat armor pen they give and 10% cd its broken plus health come on -_-

 
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JustMyBassCannon ?? Senior Member
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12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAHE11CAVIL View Post
No the cleaver only stacks up to 4 times dont get me wrong i know that its only FOUR but with the new math they did for ArmPen then getting black cleavers with the 15 flat armor pen they give and 10% cd its broken plus health come on -_-
Oh, I won't disagree that ArPen and MPen are a lot stronger with the changes. I'm perfectly fine with saying that the game is in a broken state right now; that was the point of the preseasons, after all. Break the game, redesign it, and host a new tournament. Repeat next year.

I just want to point out that stacked Cleavers is gimmicky, like stacked Phantom Dancers in S2. And they've already got changes to Black Cleaver on the PBE that are most likely going to be implemented soon.

 
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shoryu90 ?? Junior Member
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12-11-2012

see this THIS IS THE **** I HAVE TO DEAL WITH ANOYING PEOPLE WHO STACK ONE ITEM ITS BLACK FIRE ALL OVER AGAIN RIOT PLEASE IN THE NAME OF BATMAN FIX THIS ALREADY IF NOT THIS IS GOING TO TURN THE GAME INTO LEAGUE OF CLEAVERS, LEAGUE OF CLEAVERS

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TealNinje ?? Senior Member
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12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoryu90 View Post
see this THIS IS THE **** I HAVE TO DEAL WITH ANOYING PEOPLE WHO STACK ONE ITEM ITS BLACK FIRE ALL OVER AGAIN RIOT PLEASE IN THE NAME OF BATMAN FIX THIS ALREADY IF NOT THIS IS GOING TO TURN THE GAME INTO LEAGUE OF CLEAVERS, LEAGUE OF CLEAVERS
I see approximately 0 Randuin's Omens on your team.

 
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Naokazu ?? Senior Member
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12-11-2012

Make the armor pen and the CDR unique passives. Done.

 
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DAHE11CAVIL ?? Junior Member
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12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TealNinje View Post
I see approximately 0 Randuin's Omens on your team.
I tested this again and yes, randuins omen wrecks this new cleaver build, not only that but build up alot of hp, screw resistance if there doing this, the varus on the other team couldn't even touch my hp as chogath, people are forgetting of the blade now and now you dont need mr or armor this is actually awesome, LET PEOPLE BUILD THE CLEAVER more wins for me

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