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Morellonomicon

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TXH Fatality ?? Member
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12-12-2012

When Morello's evil tome first entered, it was a staple item for AP carries. It had incredible amounts of mana regeneration, cool down reduction and decent ability power. After the addition of Athene's and the rebalancing of several items, Morello's become a more situational item. Basically, you only got Morelle's if you are against an opponent with massive sustainability. With the season 3 changes, Morellonomicon is a worthless item. Grievous wounds application on spell cast is a great idea, but only to opponents who are below 40%? That is dubious at best and to top it of the attack power equivalent is a static grievous wounds for 1.5 seconds per auto attack. Morellonomicon is only useful for it's core abilities and is a wasted item in nearly every regard as you can get a better item to suit your needs.

Please Riot, do not let a potentially useful item go to waste. This item needs the old activated ability or it needs to apply grievous wounds an spell hit, for 1.5 seconds. The point of the grievous wounds is to reduce healing, if we have to wait for a champion to be below 40% as an AP carry, then we have either failed to burst our target, or we are against a target who lacks the sustain to survive even without grievous wounds. Champions like Swain, Vladimir, Warwick and Mundo are now nearly indestructible unless you have an ignite ready.

 
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JustMyBassCannon ?? Senior Member
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12-12-2012

I ****ing love this item; don't know what you're talking about. In combination with Blackfire Torch/Liandry's Torment/ANY DoT, you pretty much screw over anyone trying to rely heavily on heals. Volibear, Rageblade, Mundo, Soraka, Warwick...

 
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JustBoneBrook ?? Member
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12-12-2012

LOL try it on Brand it almost op it below 40% ok.
but it not 1.5 sec it for 4sec 4 on a mondo is really good to kill him whene he ulti or on a voli it made the 30% of is healing (at 30%) to 15% it really good item may be a litle bulf would be just ok ...
but the idea is good if you want apc item dont said this one is bad just said you want a new one to help you whit apc.
Thx Riot whit this item and i like the active to become passif.
Sorry all for the bad english.

O and yah i almot forgot i got a idea for support item:
Gain hp somthink like 250 or 300
Gain ap somethink like 50
Gain cooldown somethink like 10 or 15%
And finali Gain a aura (augmente the healing from a % like Spirit Visage)

And i am sad becose the Soul Shroud, Leviathan and Force of Nature are no more there 3 good item or good idea...
But thx for all the new item and the life steal patch a bit.
And the idea of Ohmwrecker is good but it cost too much or onli 300 hp 300 mana and some armor (may be on singed it op?) but on a support it not the best item no mana reg no cooldown no hp reg no ap no gold/sec etc. (and 980 for the active is for me really too much)

Ok it all bye.

 
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Gnarkill1 ?? Senior Member
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12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBoneBrook View Post
LOL try it on Brand it almost op it below 40% ok.
but it not 1.5 sec it for 4sec 4 on a mondo is really good to kill him whene he ulti or on a voli it made the 30% of is healing (at 30%) to 15% it really good item may be a litle bulf would be just ok ...
but the idea is good if you want apc item dont said this one is bad just said you want a new one to help you whit apc.
Thx Riot whit this item and i like the active to become passif.
Sorry all for the bad english.

O and yah i almot forgot i got a idea for support item:
Gain hp somthink like 250 or 300
Gain ap somethink like 50
Gain cooldown somethink like 10 or 15%
And finali Gain a aura (augmente the healing from a % like Spirit Visage)

And i am sad becose the Soul Shroud, Leviathan and Force of Nature are no more there 3 good item or good idea...
But thx for all the new item and the life steal patch a bit.

Ok it all bye.
My head almost exploded...

 
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Dzanio ?? Senior Member
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12-12-2012

Honestly it would be more useful if it applied grievous wounds to opponents above 40% health. Any lower and you're looking for a kill, so use ignite. Really the item is supposed to keep high sustain carries i.e. fiddlesticks, or junglers i.e. mundo from being overpowered, not to actually ensure a kill, and it should be designed to cut down on an enemy team's sustain so that you can go in and kill them.

 
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TXH Fatality ?? Member
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12-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanio View Post
Honestly it would be more useful if it applied grievous wounds to opponents above 40% health. Any lower and you're looking for a kill, so use ignite. Really the item is supposed to keep high sustain carries i.e. fiddlesticks, or junglers i.e. mundo from being overpowered, not to actually ensure a kill, and it should be designed to cut down on an enemy team's sustain so that you can go in and kill them.

This is exactly the point of the item. Furthermore the item is far inferior to it's counterpart the Executioners Calling. Also, with Liandry's, if you are using the Morellonomicon you haven't optimized your build. While Morellonomicon is viable, there are several superior items and the unique passive is virtually useless except for kill secure. Mundo may not be the best example seeing that many mundo players will get below 40% before using their ult, but try using morellonomicon efficiently against a Swain or a Warwick. You can not effectively harass a champion with endless sustain unless you can bring them below 40% health, and that won't happen unless you have a team to help you, in which case, morellonomicon is useless since that champion is being focused.

 
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Beaumains ?? Senior Member
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12-12-2012

Actually, the Morellonomicon is pretty sweet as is. Yeah it would be nice to remove the 50% health limitation, or to proc it on spells (like Liandry's), but as it is now, you basically don't have to worry about getting ignite on a burst caster ever again, and instead go for exhaust ('cause 10 shred can be quite powerful).

EDIT: I was thinking of the old Morello's, where the passive was an active, and had the higher cap.

 
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TXH Fatality ?? Member
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12-12-2012

And yet Beaumains, you are still failing to see that morellonomicon does not enable you to not pick ignite, if you are a burst champion, you would have killed them before morellonomicon came into play. In fact, if you buy morellonomicon you will net a dps loss as a burst caster in nearly every build as there are MANY BETTER ITEMS. Furthermore, if you forgo the ignite and rely on the grievous wounds debuff and fail to get the kill, then it is simply another example of Ignite > morellonomicon.

The point is that morellonomicon is underpowered and has lost viability. It was added as an option for casters to augment their arsenal for the heavy sustain champions seeing that attack damage champions had executioners calling. It has since been rendered useless in this regard as you must first bring a high sustain champion to below 40% to trigger grievous wounds. I shall repost later with math proving that I am right.

 
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TXH Fatality ?? Member
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12-12-2012

If you are playing a long range poke champion like Brand or Lux, you will want to optimize mana regeneration to stay in lane longer. While Moerllonomicon does boost 12 m/5, this falls short of the 15 m/5 of Athene's in addition to the percentage based regen of the chalice. Coupled with CDR and Magic resist clearly edges the Athene's over the Morellonomicon. You would also want to add a Liandry's Torment to the list as it adds spell penetration and the burning is bonus damage. After that you need to add survivability to the equation. Either more health, armor or spell vamp increase survivability Morellonomicon lacks all 3 of these choice states, so you look at Deathfire Grasp, Rylai's, ROA, WOTA or Zhonya's. In the event that you build all 6 items, you would be looking for either more ability power, or spell penetration, once again Morellonomicon gets over looked. In this typical build, you would need to replace one of your core items with Morellonomicon. The obvious choice is to replace Athene's Unholy grail, netting you a lose of 3 m/5 and percentage based regen in order to gain 15 ability power and grievous wounds under 40%.

If you are playing a a burst champion such as Ziggs, Akali, Diana, Le blanc or Annie etc. The goal is to burst a target to death. As a burst champion, you prioritize ability power and spell penetration, causing morellonomicon to fall on the list of items you would want. Given an optimal usage of your combo, morellonomicon passive won't take effect unless you failed to kill your target. If you fail to kill your target, you would then need to wait for your abilities to be ready to do your combo once again, giving your target ample time to retaliate.

The only time you would want to consider adding Morellonomicon to your itemization is to counter an opponent with high sustainability. In which case you are switching out an optimal item for an item that requires you to get the opponent close to dead, but not quite, then back off, get your cool downs ready, and go back at them.

 
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Beaumains ?? Senior Member
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12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFatalFlaw View Post
And yet Beaumains, you are still failing to see that morellonomicon does not enable you to not pick ignite, if you are a burst champion, you would have killed them before morellonomicon came into play. In fact, if you buy morellonomicon you will net a dps loss as a burst caster in nearly every build as there are MANY BETTER ITEMS. Furthermore, if you forgo the ignite and rely on the grievous wounds debuff and fail to get the kill, then it is simply another example of Ignite > morellonomicon.

The point is that morellonomicon is underpowered and has lost viability. It was added as an option for casters to augment their arsenal for the heavy sustain champions seeing that attack damage champions had executioners calling. It has since been rendered useless in this regard as you must first bring a high sustain champion to below 40% to trigger grievous wounds. I shall repost later with math proving that I am right.
I'm hoping that your next post will clarify this one, and look forward to the math stats to back up your claims. I'm particularly curious about these "MANY BETTER ITEMS" for the niche situation at hand.

I imagine you're assuming a champion with considerable sustain, who is also not tanky, as you seem to be discussing an opponent who would fall to burst, but for their sustain (even perhaps a health pot).

As far as critical build on burst casters goes (since you're a priori ignoring non-burst casters), that would be boots, deathcap, and later on a Void staff. The rest is AP, AP, and more AP, unless the situation calls for something else. The 3 best flat AP items for a mana-using champion are Archangel's Staff, Deathfire Grasp, and Zhonya's Hourglass. Since a burst caster doesn't really care about CDR or mana regen (damage first and foremost), that means that either DFG or ZHG will have to take the cut. Since DFG also amplifies your whole burst by 20%, I'd say that's the one you keep, unless you really need that invulnerability for some reason. Thus, the simple question is whether 25 less AP is worth the ability to automatically prevent your target from healing or being saved.

An interesting question: does a burst caster ever really need to worry about sustain and/or regeneration? The longest burst that's still considered a burst lasts about 3-4 seconds. The best regen I've seen on a non-tanky champion is < 45 per 5; which means your target has an effective 60 more hp (less than) that you need to consider. By that token, why is Ignite, a DoT, so often considered a burst-caster "must"? As opposed to a spec'd Exhaust? Or Teleport?

I guess the end question is whether the extra 25 AP + the true damage DoT from Ignite is required on burst casters, or whether there are other options for burst casters that might let them be better overall (e.g. Clarity, Teleport, or Exhaust).

I think this perceived "need" for Grievous wounds on burst-casters is misplaced. It's much more effective over the long term, on more traditional 'laners'. That is, Karthus would make much better use of this item than LeBlanc. Once he gets his target below 40%, they can never heal back unless they get out of lane (the effect has no cooldown, so Karth's pings re-proc the effect every second or so). Vlad would actually love the item too, if it weren't for the mana regen that it wastes on him.

Anyway, I look forward to your follow-up.

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