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Talon is not bursty enough as an assassin compared to other assassins

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CerealBoxOfDoom ?? Senior Member
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12-29-2012

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Originally Posted by Frightning View Post
Then why was my win rate w/ him during season 2 the highest in my roster even though I was new to playing him and by my own admission not particularly good w/ him. (literally 70% win rate, never been able to do that w/ any other champion)
because counterpick counters.

 
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shadic33 ?? Junior Member
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12-29-2012

talon doesn't really need a buff in his AD ratio or abilities, however, taking out mana and replacing it with energy would be a great idea and could probably be more skill based on when or how to use your abilities at the right time for burst/escapes of some sort.

 
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PermafrostHD ?? Senior Member
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12-29-2012

Talon not bursty? Hahahaha you make the funnies

 
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ZerU92 ?? Junior Member
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12-29-2012

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Originally Posted by Novavell View Post
WOW WOW WOW stop right there, what the hell do you know about talon?
Talon to this date is one of the top 3 AD assassin in the game right now his burst is one of the deadliest in the game, what new talon player fail at is to get all 8 blades in his ulti to hit the target, his Wat max rank 260(+120% bonus AD) and if your good enough u can get a 3rd hit and his E is perfect as it is and does it not mention his Q (unfortunately is gonna be nerfed) is quite ok

learn to play him better
first of all I know how to play him, it's just that I think other assassins have more burst potential than him and can do it more smoothly.

and btw, enemies can only get hit twice from your ulti: once going out of talon and another going back.

 
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ZerU92 ?? Junior Member
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12-29-2012

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Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
meh, just another talon thread, he even compares talon to swain.
I only compare their damage amplification, and it doesn't make sense that Swain has more than talon. Does swain really need more? Unless he's an assassin, which he isn't.

 
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Afael ?? Member
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12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZerU92 View Post
first of all I know how to play him, it's just that I think other assassins have more burst potential than him and can do it more smoothly.

and btw, enemies can only get hit twice from your ulti: once going out of talon and another going back.
Could you explain this in a bit more detail? His burst potential is great and any 1 bonus AD you get increase your full burst by 4.5 damage, due to his great scalings. As for doing it smoothly - Talon burst is similar to any other assassin. You blink in, press QWER in a different order and people die. Or do you mean that his damage ratios per ability are somewhat uncomfortable, i.e. he is too reliant on his ult to do the damage?

 
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Frightning ?? Senior Member
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12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
because counterpick counters.
It wasn't just winning lane, it was winning the game. I usually get fed as him mid (counterpick), but once fed I tend to carry games with him quite effectively. I can't think of another assassin that can carry that hard for a given amount of being fed.

 
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ZerU92 ?? Junior Member
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12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PermafrostHD View Post
Talon not bursty? Hahahaha you make the funnies
I said not bursty ENOUGH. there's a difference between 1k burst and 650 burst. get it?

 
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Afael ?? Member
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12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZerU92 View Post
I only compare their damage amplification, and it doesn't make sense that Swain has more than talon. Does swain really need more? Unless he's an assassin, which he isn't.
Swain damage amplification lasts for 4 seconds. Yes, its longer than Talons, but Talon does his damage instantly, while most of Swain's abilities are DoT. And his damage output cannot be compared to Talons. Even though % amplification maybe less, Talon is likely to get more damage from it just because he does more damage to begin with.
If Talon gets 4.5 damage from any 1 bonus AD, with amplification on max. rank, he will do 5.175 points of damage. Swain will only gain 2.6 more damage from any 1 AP he gets. And he has to wait for 4 seconds for this damage to go through. With amplification, he will get 3.12 damage. In addition, all of Talon damage benefit from amp. while damage on Tonment doesn't amplify itself.

 
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ZerU92 ?? Junior Member
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12-29-2012

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Originally Posted by Afael View Post
Could you explain this in a bit more detail? His burst potential is great and any 1 bonus AD you get increase your full burst by 4.5 damage, due to his great scalings. As for doing it smoothly - Talon burst is similar to any other assassin. You blink in, press QWER in a different order and people die. Or do you mean that his damage ratios per ability are somewhat uncomfortable, i.e. he is too reliant on his ult to do the damage?
level 18
200 bonus ad
enemy hp = 2500

talon = e----aa--------q--------------------w------------r
talon = 1.15(305.8 + 305.8 + 210 + 330 + 250 + 250 + 440 + 440) = 2911.34


2 clones after ulti:
zed = r----e---w----q-------aa---passive--r dmg
zed = 1.5(400 + 930 + 359.8 + 250) + 359.8 = 3269.5


evolved q, target is isolated:
khazix = e--- q--- 12% hp--w----r------aa-----r--------aa
khazix = 365 + 760 + 300 + 415 + 220 + 305.8 + 220 + 305.8 = 2891.6
which is less than talon's but khazix's ulti is more convenient since he has twice the chance to survive (in my opinion multiplte stealths is better than one slightly longer stealth) meaning twice chance to kill his target. If you want I can calculate other assassins' burst (surely for AP assassins they have more damage)

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