Riot has basically conceded that their understanding of the jungle isn't refined enough to make the distinction during the design phase, so they just design whatever, and if it just happens to be okay in the jungle, then it's okay in the jungle.

Maybe increase his mana costs so he actually has to think about using his abilities? Aside from his ult (which even that could have a higher one) his mana costs are ridiculously low. As of right now whenever I play Darius I use Q whenever it's up, effectively farming and harassing at the same time at no cost to me.

Lmao clearly you never seen anyone that knows how to use him. He is so good in the jungle, how can you even think hes bad

I'd like to disagree. His jungle clear is strong and gets stronger, his ganks are incredibly powerful, and he transitions into a powerful tank late-game with team-wide disruption, among other things.

Also, I've seen AP mid Nautilus played consistently well throughout roughly 50 or so games--a friend of mine, Commando Garen, used it to carry himself to a last-minute silver in ranked. He's quite effective against popular melee mids (like Kat, for example), and can be devastating with mid-level exp and farm.

How about "let's keep Darius's bleed as a deterrent for engaging him in prolonged duels"? Chances are, if you let Darius stick to you long enough (after getting into range with his abysmal mobility) to get 5 stacks and almost kill you with his ult, you stuck around Darius too long.

It also hardly makes sense thematically (and thus would deal a blow to readability)--cutting somebody deosn't make them stop bleeding, it makes them bleed even more. Encouraging him to save his ult for the end of the fight (as opposed to blowing it along with his other abilities--like most other ults) is enough, punishing him for miscalculating his ult's damage slightly is a bit unnecessary. Just bleed out, dude. Don't call it a grave, this is the future you chose.

Well, the point of Darius is being a lane bully. He needs that low-cooldown, low-cost (and very short-ranged) harass to actually be a threat and push his opponent out of lane, since he doesn't have any sustain or mobility. His harass pushes his lane, too, so if you can bait him into using it in the middle of minions, you leave him with two options: back off to avoid ganks, letting you freefarm and freeze your lane at tower, or stick around at your tower and guarantee a gank-kill because he has no escapes.

He's a very solid support, mind you, a lot of what he does is better done by blitzcrank, but blitz is often banned. so you can be a walking bundle of tanky CC with a hook just fine in bot lane and it does work very well... You are slightly more dependent on getting some gold as a support, but the S3 passive gold changes kinda fix this.

Itemsguy -- You basically just describe the benefits of the current dominant set of lane assignments. I would say that what you have left unaccounted for is the possibility that the idea of lane assignments is itself sub-optimal. It's possible that in a year or two the dominant way to play the game will not involve placing specific people in specific lanes for the entire first half of the game, but rather moving them around in response to changing conditions or game time -- e.g., we already see some pro teams running two top until the game time at which dragon can feasibly be taken and then swapping them bot.

You're right, I don't play darius much but when I do I absolutely love it. Changing the bleed stacks to physical would definitely have some negative implications for those playing him. Morello talked about reducing frustration of playing against him and I just thought this might be the train of thought you guys follow.

The tagging system is broken, especially for junglers. Commonly used junglers such as Amumu, Lee Sin, Udyr, Nautilus, Udyr, and Nocturne (among others), are not tagged appropriately.

Major Props fro this post CertainlyT. Good on you for being honest.

Tell me, are there Warwick changes coming? I'm tired of him being next to useless except for ulting on some-one.

So uhh where was Ziggs intended to play when he was made?