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Are Champions As Awesome As They Could Be? @Morello @Feralpony @IronStylus @Xypherous

First Riot Post
 
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BestBilbo ?? Senior Member
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01-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
Again, this is the last time I'll respond to you--for now direct your inquiries and general contrarian nature to Peri. While he may not have all the answers, he's much more patient than I am, and also not quite as busy.

Also, from now on, you will not get a response to anything not pertaining to the subject at hand. In other words, if you can't explain why champions as they currently exist are more readable, defined, and have more counterplay than their redesigns, you have nothing to prove, and nothing to say. We're not here to talk about how champions currently work, but how they could've been if they were designed around the ideals Riot presented in the champion retrospective (this stuff isn't just something we've pulled out of nowhere--these are Riot's own ideals, and they've indirectly agreed with quite a few things we've said)--and how they could be if Riot decided to start fresh with a sequel.

That is all.

EDIT:

For the time being, I'm going to let Peri here deal with all the people that come in here with the intention of stating how current champions work.

I'll be in charge of discussing the redesigns themselves, and either clarifying elements of those kits if I need to (like with the Akali ultimate) or discussing possible changes to them (like the possible changes to the Annie redesign discussed in the previous thread).

I take honest criticism to heart when people provide it, but if you're just here to be a contrarian, I can't guarantee a soft-serve response. I'll leave that and the reiteration of things we've mentioned in the OP for Peri, because I don't like looking unprofessional!
Thank you for posting all of that - red both two comments and I think you've clarified in great detail for 'Whyumai', let's hope he'll understand all the explanation and like/approve of the Redesigns I've suggested for him to read.

As you've said above aswell - I'll also specifically will try to keep the discussion about the redesigns in comparison with the current state of the champions, as the current state of league is irrelevant if you do not take our redesigns into consideration. :)

 
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BestBilbo ?? Senior Member
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01-19-2013

Going to bed - today has been a good day in terms of views and upvotes aswell as some discussion - great !

From here ItemsGuy will take over guys - until I'm up again. : )

 
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ItemsGuy ?? Senior Member
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01-19-2013

I don't have much to say currently (aside from wow, ~30 upvotes already? :O), but I'll just point out that now that my redesign work is done for the most part (I'd like to redesign Vi's Innate and ult, and some very, very minor things with Thresh--and possibly rework Nami back into the game, with a proper "flowing waters" playstyle), I'm going to be spending a lot of my free time working on original champions.

You can get the gist of pretty much all of them here--I finished the last kit (Kalot'Maw, I believe--and yes, "terror coming, daddy coming") about a few weeks ago, and will work on getting all of the splash art done in the meantime. Ah, it's been so long since I've been able to focus on my own art! If I have to paint another color swatch on a 1 inch/1 inch square one more time, I'm going to drink an entire tube of Acryla Gouache.

(Another side-project I'm going to be taking up soon is going to be involving making visual designs to a bunch of the current champions--some major, some minor--mostly to push proportions and stylization to not only create more distinctive silhouettes, but create a greater diversity within the roster, particularly with the female champions. Also gonna deal with awkward designs like Nunu/Willump and Anivia, to allow for more dynamic and characteristic animations while also making them less awkward from a design standpoint. I may put up a blog for this, but not sure if I'll link to it here since it's a bit more subjective--although not in terms of creating better silhouettes or more diverse designs.)

 
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BestBilbo ?? Senior Member
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01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
I don't have much to say currently (aside from wow, ~30 upvotes already? :O), but I'll just point out that now that my redesign work is done for the most part (I'd like to redesign Vi's Innate and ult, and some very, very minor things with Thresh--and possibly rework Nami back into the game, with a proper "flowing waters" playstyle), I'm going to be spending a lot of my free time working on original champions.

You can get the gist of pretty much all of them here--I finished the last kit (Kalot'Maw, I believe--and yes, "terror coming, daddy coming") about a few weeks ago, and will work on getting all of the splash art done in the meantime. Ah, it's been so long since I've been able to focus on my own art! If I have to paint another color swatch on a 1 inch/1 inch square one more time, I'm going to drink an entire tube of Acryla Gouache.

(Another side-project I'm going to be taking up soon is going to be involving making visual designs to a bunch of the current champions--some major, some minor--mostly to push proportions and stylization to not only create more distinctive silhouettes, but create a greater diversity within the roster, particularly with the female champions. Also gonna deal with awkward designs like Nunu/Willump and Anivia, to allow for more dynamic and characteristic animations while also making them less awkward from a design standpoint. I may put up a blog for this, but not sure if I'll link to it here since it's a bit more subjective--although not in terms of creating better silhouettes or more diverse designs.)
I look forward to all of those splash arts including a few Redesigns - as far as this thread goes: A Red Will Come (pretty unfortunate didn't post his opinion on our threads here :( ... ) - I'll keep on believing this.

Thanks for all the work you've done dude, you've truly shown me what makes a good champion, you've truly shown me how League could be the best game it can be.

 
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BestBilbo ?? Senior Member
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01-20-2013

ItemsGuy originally had Yorick scrapped out of the champion-roster for a possible 'LoL 2' yet I've made my one and only Redesign and ItemsGuy was pretty impressed.
Might make some changes but as far as I know the Redesign I've come up with is pretty good to go.

Will be uploading this and adding this to the Redesign section over the course of the week ! : )

 
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ItemsGuy ?? Senior Member
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01-20-2013

(I am also taking Nami off the cutting board! I'll probably be able to get the redesigns up by tomorrow, and I'll post them here right away.

Also, chances are that Riot's going to continue to release champions beyond this point right now, so I'm not sure whether I want to reach a "stopping point" with the redesigns so I can focus more attention on school work and original champions. Would you guys like to see redesigns on future champions, or are you fine with what you've got right now? I'd like to include as many LoL champions as I can in LoL 2, but the only way that would happen for future champions would be if they meet the criteria--which Thresh does, even though I do have some incredibly minor nitpicks about him--or if I fixed them up with a redesign.)

UPDATE: New redesigns!

Nami, the Tidecaller

Yorick, the Gravedigger

 
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BestBilbo ?? Senior Member
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01-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
(I am also taking Nami off the cutting board! I'll probably be able to get the redesigns up by tomorrow, and I'll post them here right away.

Also, chances are that Riot's going to continue to release champions beyond this point right now, so I'm not sure whether I want to reach a "stopping point" with the redesigns so I can focus more attention on school work and original champions. Would you guys like to see redesigns on future champions, or are you fine with what you've got right now? I'd like to include as many LoL champions as I can in LoL 2, but the only way that would happen for future champions would be if they meet the criteria--which Thresh does, even though I do have some incredibly minor nitpicks about him--or if I fixed them up with a redesign.)

UPDATE: New redesigns!

Nami, the Tidecaller

Yorick, the Gravedigger
I've read Yorick and Nami, you did a great job writing Yorick for me there, thanks dude. Will add them when I get back !

EDIT: Yorick, Nami, added to the redesign section !

 
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ItemsGuy ?? Senior Member
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01-21-2013

Currently, the following champs are on the cutting board (in regards to making it to LoL 2):

Cassiopeia
Evelynn
Galio
Irelia
Jayce
Karma
Mordekaiser
Orianna
Sivir
Syndra (new "black hole" playstyle too problematic, may take another stab at this down the line)
Soraka
Urgot
Udyr
Xerath (may have second thoughts on this, as I liked his original concept but can't turn it into a kit atm)
Volibear
Zilean
Blitzcrank
Xin Zhao
Lux (if someone can give me a kit characteristic of light that doesn't rely entirely on particle effects and vague connections between function, you can keep her)
Elise
Zed

However, champs that have been underlined are being reworked into new champions due to having a strong characteristic element in their design (such as Jayce's Saturday-morning-hero appearance/attitude, Cassiopeia's "snake" theming) but both didn't capitalize on that with their actual kit and are a bit lacking in terms of visual design (Cass is generally a mess, not sure what they were trying with that headdress but it's clunky and awkward from a design standpoint--which you can take my word on, because I have studied this sh*t at a college level from working professionals in their field). Really, all that would be remaining of these champions in the new designs would be their names and whatever element was redemptive enough to warrant making the jump to LoL 2, as they would be receiving changes in terms of both visual design and kit (more or less making them a new champion)--but wanting to keep as much of LoL's content as possible in LoL 2, I've more or less "resurrected" them in this limbo territory between redesign and original champion. However, they'll be going in the OC blog because using their current splash art to represent them would be misinforming. This is pretty much just to explain why you'd be seeing "Jayce" and "Evelynn" in my OC design blog!

Champs that have been bolded won't be "resurrected" as a new champion because they don't really have much going for them in terms of character or appearance, but will be receiving placeholder champions for various elements of their kits (such as Orianna's whole unfitting-but-cool command-the-pet schtick).

Champs that haven't been italicized or bolded just won't be making it into LoL 2, due to not really having anything going for them in terms of kit or character. Sorry if you enjoy playing Irelia! You'll be able to still be a vague mess of a bruiser-assassin in LoL, just not in the (currently theoretical) sequel.

EDIT:

"Why isn't my favorite champ making it into LoL 2, ItemsGuy?"

If I found any champs to be unworkable (whether through vague/absent theming or, really, a lack of iconicy/"mental sticking power"--nobody remembers Karma, because there's nothing really strong that resonates within her design), I put them on the cutting board. If LoL 2 is going to be all about readable, thematic, and defined kits, you can't have anything that meets those standards running around! I know some people would miss certain champs--which is why this is the "LoL 2 Project," and not the "hey let's change League as it currently is" project. It's a fresh start of sorts, and even if you're going to miss something that won't be making it to the sequel, you'd have a metric buttload of pretty much 100% new content to be looking forward to!

 
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phantom1516 ?? Senior Member
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01-21-2013

2 many words..... UPVOTED

 
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ItemsGuy ?? Senior Member
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01-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom1516 View Post
2 many words..... UPVOTED
While we appreciate your support (and acknowledge that we've written quite extensively on the subject matter of the current state of champion design and the potential it has by and far failed to fulfill)--and you don't have to do this immediately, by any means--we appreciate feedback leagues more! Whether this is a simple "I like X redesign, it really captures the initial theme" or "I think X element of Y redesign is problematic because Z"--or something more involved (elaborating on why you like one of the changes we've prescribed, or why you thing the original kit fits our standards--which we've taken directly from Rioters themselves--better than the redesigns), that's really all we ask.

Again, we're glad you felt inspired to upvote us, but thoughtless approval isn't exactly why we've poured as much time and effort into this stuff as we have--me spending about 4 months on redesigns, and Peri slaving over the forums easily for over a hundred hours total so far--so any feedback, no matter how small, is enough! Just something to let us know that you've put in the few minutes to read what we've taken hours to write, edit, and refine!